Stem and Hoods questions

[Triskeliongirl]

Margo, what do you think of Eden's remark that shimming effects the braking effeciency (I think that is what she means by 'throw' but not sure). I have shims on order for my new bike. I am fine reaching the levers and braking from the hoods, but in the drops, i.e. I couldn't ride with my fingers contacting the levers, I'd have to move them out to brake so was thinking to shim, but I don't want to compromise my braking effectiveness. I am used to ultegra 9 short reach levers. I agree, these durace 10 ones are ridiculously huge, but I am not going to change them now.

1-3 spot on
4 - shallow refers to the distance between the top of the bar and the drop. Reach - distance that the bars stick out forward, width - how wide side to side
5 -yep, shims move the lever a little closer into the bars. If you shim then your brakes does have a little less throw, but I don't think its generally an issue

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Margo, what do you think of Eden's remark that shimming effects the braking effeciency (I think that is what she means by 'throw' but not sure). I have shims on order for my new bike....but I don't want to compromise my braking effectiveness. I am used to ultegra 9 short reach levers.

I'm not Margo, but...I don't think shims effect the brake efficiency- they just mean it won't take as big a lever movement for the brakes to engage the rims. Your brakes won't be 'weaker'. I think by 'throw' she meant 'play'.
I have the shims on my Ultegra 9speed short reach brifters, and I just lOVE them. I feel so much safer now that my fingers can actually get a good grip around the levers.

[Eden]

Margo, what do you think of Eden's remark that shimming effects the braking effeciency (I think that is what she means by 'throw' but not sure). I have shims on order for my new bike. I am fine reaching the levers and braking from the hoods, but in the drops, i.e. I couldn't ride with my fingers contacting the levers, I'd have to move them out to brake so was thinking to shim, but I don't want to compromise my braking effectiveness. I am used to ultegra 9 short reach levers. I agree, these durace 10 ones are ridiculously huge, but I am not going to change them now.

I don't think it necessarily will affect the braking efficiency, it just means you have less far to squeeze before you actuate the brake..... its not inherently negative though- just depends on how you like your brakes adjusted. If you tend to like them loose it might be harder to achieve that feel.

[Mr. SR500]

Shims work great if needed, once installed brakes are adjusted to be just as responsive.

On bar rotation, whatever your comfortable with is best. I like a flat top, because it lets me ride in the hoods all day long, and I can still do a 30 minute TT in the drops. It will also allow you to ride more aero by grasping the hoods like a gun while resting your forearms on the bar (sort like having aero bars without the aero bars). John Howard really pushes this technique and while I don't use it often, it works well.

I think your on the right track with your fitting. The first fitter I ever had always said start with the ground and work you way up. I've had different fittings over the years, but his approach was very systematic and makes sense. He started with cleats, (he was a Lemond wedge fan as well), then worked up to the saddle/seatpost, next the bar, and finally the stem. And repeat.

I'm getting ready to have Retul fitting done, and look forward to how it compares to past fittings. It uses sensors and a computer to draw a 3D image of what is going on in real time. Should be cool.

[SadieKate]

Re: the bar to saddle drop question, I'll take a stab and let Margo correct me.

Fit is all about the angle in your hips and shoulders. If you look at someone who has been properly fitted on a variety of bikes, the angle of their back/hip and then their back/arms stays relatively the same. It doesn't matter if they are on a tri bike, road racing geo, touring geo, etc. Those angles will stay about the same.

So, if your bike's geometry isn't designed for a saddle/bar drop or vice versa, you aren't going to get comfy. Take a tri-bike, you should be sitting farther forward over the crank than you would on a touring bike which means the seat tube is a different angle. This also means the front end has to be lower and longer.

There's my very garbled take on this.

[Kiwi Stoker]

I got rather excited about Margo's comment that you can mix Sram shifters with Shimano. I too hate the bulkiness of Shimano shifters as my short fingers cannot reach the brake levers very well from the hoods. I tried in the bike shop, Sram and campy shifters which are heaps narrower and the "blades" are flatter so my fingers won't slip. However I don't want to change my entire groupset as that would be expensive!

However I just checked with a Shimano expert I know and he said "yes you can but you also have to change out the front and rear derailleur as well".

Which kind of makes that option not so attractive...

[SadieKate]

Your Shimano expert needs a little larnin'.

http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm

I hate Shimano road shifters. I love Campy but sometimes I need Shimano gearing. I have a road bike and a cross bike that have Campy shifters and Shimano derailleurs and cassettes. The Shiftmate works like a charm.

[lunacycles]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lunacycles View Post
Unless you have profound neck/back issues, you really shouldn't shoot for a position in which your handlebar is higher than your saddle, imo, unless your bike is designed for it (and yours isn't).Quote:
Originally Posted by jobob View Post
Why?
I agree, why?

Having your bars higher than your saddle effectively reduces the amount of body weight that goes over the front wheel. Almost all stock bicycles (Rivendells might be the only true exception) are not designed for this kind of biased weight distribution. The result is that the bike does not handle as it should/was designed to, especially your steering. If you ride a well fitting bike that allows you to get lower without discomfort, a whole new world opens up. In addition, a conditioned body riding in a position that allows some drop from the saddle to the handlebar allows the chest to open up, and permits a more aerodynamic and aggressive position that responds more quickly and efficiently to changes in terrain. It tends to make the transition for in the saddle to out of the saddle easier and more natural. Your arms/upper body can actually contribute to the cycling process besides just handling the controls. Plus, you usually go faster.

A poster recently commented on how she switched her stem from the stock one to one that is 6cm long in order to fix her reach problem. She said it made her bike handle horribly, but she got used to it. OK. We can get used to anything, really, but my point is simply to state that this kind of "fix"--which is striving for the same goal as getting a stem with more rise--is on some level a compromise compared to what's possible as far as position goes for the average jane or joe the big bike company designs their bikes for. Unfortunately, if you are on the very small end of the spectrum, that often doesn't include you.

Riding with the vast majority of your weight over the back half of the bike can also create saddle problems, although there are certainly saddles designed for this kind of leisure riding.

A lot of small folks on smallish stock bikes that don't fit well end up in this rather upright position as it is more comfortable when compared to where they started. It is a very common way to alleviate the discomfort caused by an overly long reach--and sometimes the only way to get comfortable on a stock bike that almost fits. There is nothing wrong with that. I believe if you aren't comfortable, you won't be efficient on the bike, regardless of how you sit on the bike. But if you are comfortable and efficient, you will get more out of cycling.

And I have found women by and large prefer a higher front end/less drop from saddle to handlebar than men do. Including myself. Sage folks like Dr. Andy Pruitt often recommend a higher front end position for racers who feel they need to look like Tour de France racers but just can't find the sweet spot comfort wise, or who have incurred stress-related injuries by trying to force themselves into Lance's position without residing in Lance's body. There is a point at which coming up a bit at the front end makes a lot of sense. But there is a point at which it truly effects efficiency and handling. When the bar height exceeds the saddle height, I generally draw the line....unless it is absolutely necessary for anatomic or joint pain, and then I try to design the front end (head tube angle and fork offset) to accommodate it.

Wow that was wordy. Thanks for reading.

[lunacycles]

Margo, what do you think of Eden's remark that shimming effects the braking effeciency (I think that is what she means by 'throw' but not sure).

I think what she means is that there is less cable pulled compared to a brake lever that does not have the shim. But this doesn't affect braking efficiency in any meaningful way. I like to pull a lot of brake cable and have the shims on the brifters on one of my bikes, and have never noticed any kind of loss of braking efficiency. I think more brake efficiency is lost when my fingers are totally extended and trying to engage a brake lever. That's unpleasant. I think shims are a good solution for retrofitting Shimano brifters. Not having to shim anything, as the SRAM brifters allow, is even better.