Driving:when will you stop?

[OakLeaf]

I don't have an answer, but in thinking about it, I'm realizing that living where a car is necessary is not only poor planning for the planet, it's poor planning for our personal future.

I honestly don't expect my Florida home to be above water by the time I'm no longer able to drive. Even so, as a healthy middle-aged adult it would be very easy to forego a car here. But if and when my eyesight, reflexes and/or judgment no longer allow me to drive a car, I won't be able to ride a bicycle here safely either, and public transit is minimal. Where we live in Ohio it would be EXTREMELY difficult to go without a car, and it would definitely require a high level of physical and mental fitness.

So... can we take this thread in a slightly different direction? Who lives someplace, or knows of a place, with good public transit and access to a variety of physical necessities, arts, services and social activities, where someone could live without a motor vehicle, without being terribly isolated and deprived? WHERE will we go when we stop driving?

I nominate D.C. off DuPont Circle where my grandmother lived for several years. (Just a few miles from the house where she'd lived for decades.) It always seemed like a terrific place to live at any age. Where else?

[tulip]

DC, NYC, Boston area in the US (I'm an east coaster). Other cities, too, just in the right location. Downtown Asheville, Richmond (where I live) is pretty good if you are downtown or in the Fan, although there's no grocery store right downtown. Also Durham and Raleigh have great downtowns. Those are just the places I am familiar with.

I'm considering Europe as well. In general, European countries have much better health care systems than the US. Fortunately for me, I'm an EU citizen so I can just move there without visa worries. So for me, Paris, Nantes, Bordeaux...what wonderful possibilities! Even the small towns have stores downtown and many have train service to other areas.

[MomOnBike]

We had a conversation with my mid 90's Mother-In-Law recently about her driving. It was not a congenial talk. When her driver's licence was renewed about a year ago, I felt like driving the 600 miles and strangeling the examiner with my own two hands. MIL scared me white 30 years ago when she drove, and she can't have improved over the years.

Me, I'd love to give up driving at any time. I just don't care for it. Sadly, I'm not quite in a position to do so, yet.

As for WHERE one gives up driving, my thought is that one can, with careful attention to the particular block of the particular street you live on, be able to go car-free in almost any medium-to large city, and quite a few small towns. It's all about location, location, location. Of course, whether or not you can afford such a location is a concern.

[aly]

Personally, I already avoid driving and would be happy to stop completely. However, I'm facing the same issue as many others concerning my grandfather. My grandparents live about 2000 miles away. They are both 86. My grandma has many, many health problem and can barely get around now. My grandfather still shovels his own snow, mows his own yard, cares for my grandma, and drives. He has heart surgery about 30 years ago. He has bad diabetes. However, he's still pretty together for his age. This doesn't stop me from concern over his driving. He just isn't nearly as quick as he used to be, and I worry.

The problem is that they live in a small town and aren't physically able to walk everywhere. The doctors appointments are in a nearby town (and some are about 40 minutes away). The grocery is a few minutes away by car. They have hard winters, so this limits things. There really aren't available car services. All of their children are deceased, and the only other grandchildren are my brother (who lives near me and is disabled) and my cousin, who lives about 20 minutes away from them, but he's very irresponsible and can't be bothered. Most of their friend have passed and they don't really have a strong community anymore because of their inability to go out much because of my grandmother.

Driving means life to my grandfather. I know he would deteriorate quickly if he wasn't able to drive. He also refuses to leave his home to go to any type of assisted living. They have been in the same house for 60 years and after losing all 4 of their children, they want to hold onto the memories, comfort, etc.

I tried to discuss the driving issue once, but was quickly shut down by both of them. It's a tough situation. Unfortunately, I think this is a common situation for a good number of our elderly population.

[Grog]

Many, many places in Europe, of course.

In North America, it's harder:

Vancouver, B.C., would be do-able, but you'd have to choose carefully. Montreal, Quebec, is much better, in most places within city boundaries. New York City, Boston/Cambridge of course. I think Portland would be pretty good in many areas, but I have found Seattle to be very car-centered and divided by deep highways. I don't know the city all that well though. I don't know a lot about Winnipeg, Edmonton, and Calgary, but the outlook seems grim to me. Toronto? I guess.

San Francisco, maybe? But it's steep.

Following Kunstler (The Long Emergency), small, former industrial towns (New England style) are best for the long term, if one lives in the centre. However considering the standard of health care that is required to keep so many of us alive, it would make it difficult in smaller towns with no high-level medical infrastructure.

[GLC1968]

I don't have an answer, but in thinking about it, I'm realizing that living where a car is necessary is not only poor planning for the planet, it's poor planning for our personal future.

I honestly don't expect my Florida home to be above water by the time I'm no longer able to drive. Even so, as a healthy middle-aged adult it would be very easy to forego a car here. But if and when my eyesight, reflexes and/or judgment no longer allow me to drive a car, I won't be able to ride a bicycle here safely either, and public transit is minimal. Where we live in Ohio it would be EXTREMELY difficult to go without a car, and it would definitely require a high level of physical and mental fitness.

So... can we take this thread in a slightly different direction? Who lives someplace, or knows of a place, with good public transit and access to a variety of physical necessities, arts, services and social activities, where someone could live without a motor vehicle, without being terribly isolated and deprived? WHERE will we go when we stop driving?

I nominate D.C. off DuPont Circle where my grandmother lived for several years. (Just a few miles from the house where she'd lived for decades.) It always seemed like a terrific place to live at any age. Where else?

I nominate Portland. Even if you live in the outlying areas like Hillsboro - it is still totally possible to get where you need to go by light rail or walking (depending on where you live) and downtown Portland is only an easy 40 minute ride. Plus, TE is here...so there's that.

Actually, I have never really thought about my own time to give up driving. I fully assume that everyone will be car-free by then - there won't be anymore oil so the age of cheap fuel will be well over with... I do worry about my parents though. They are both fiercely independent (but still in their 60's, so there's plenty of time) and live in a place where biking or walking is taking your life into your hands once outside their neighborhood/club area. Even when I visit, I won't ride a bike there - too fricken dangerous! I hope that changes sometime in the next 20 years so that they will have options when the time comes.

[Possegal]

My mother lived in Pittsburgh and never drove. She got around just fine, as did I when I lived and worked there and owned no car. Great city with good access to transportation, if you live in the right areas of course. And unlike some of the other cities (like DC), it is quite affordable. I'd love to live in DC here, rather than the MD burbs. But I can't afford it! But man, what I could afford to own back in the 'burgh!

[redrhodie]

My little city is pretty good for having everything in walking distance, but the big problem (other than there's no Indian restaurant) is that no one shovels their sidewalks. It must be really awful for the elderly and wheelchair bound to get around here in winter. Just something to consider about New England.

[denny]

Gosh, this thread has really made me start thinking about the unthinkable. I really do have to start planning more.

I just got back from Fort Myers, FL yesterday and it seems like there were so many people on bikes both old and young. Interestingly, many don't seem to be concerned with wearing helmets. I did notice there were some elderly people who were on tri-cycles complete with panniers and flags who had been shopping somewhere. I thought that it was such a neat option to continue getting around in the absence of public transport.

I think NYC is great for it's transit system, but generally unsafe and cold.
Miami sounds nice and warm,not sure about affordability. The Golden Girls sure made it look like fun though.

[Miranda]

My mom is turning 80 this year and I was just having this same conversation *sigh*. I certainly want her, and others to be safe, but it's sad to see the driving go.

I personally have had some medical recovery things where I could not drive by doc's orders. Omg, it was awful! That loss of independence is depressing.

But, cars can become two ton killing machines when they go bad. Glad your dad has the sense to know to withdraw. My mom does as well. Just dirves the minimum (not at night, no free ways, etc.). But, my FIL on the other hand does not. It scares me.

[shootingstar]

I feel as if I live another planet.
So many of you (but not all), would find it difficult not to drive at that more frail time in life later.

And most surprisingly just last week, my dearie said to me: "I only drive for you now". Meaning we only rent a car 1-2 times annually..so that we can zip around faster in vacation area. After all, we've been together a long time and to hear this latest pronouncement.

He's 65 and is a cyclist but does have a real lifelong sleep disorder that causes him to fall asleep at steering wheel after 1-2 hrs. of straight driving. usually after an hr. of driving he has to nap for about 15 min. while I get out walk around or sit around in the car. Not a big deal to me.

I will never be able to convince him otherwise since years ago, he had a big scare while driving. He did fall sleep for a few seconds when he was driving his son who was 10 at the time of this incident. He found himself by the side of the road ok. But couldn't remember how he got there. He was in his mid 40's at that time.

It scared him enough, that he gave up the idea of ever owning a car.

Would it help that I drove to take over from him? I suppose if I was a type A vacationing airhead and thought he was spoiling my vacation/my life. But no, I'm just a non-car hill-billy.

So the future of no driving in old age...looks similar to now..maybe I might walk slower at that frail time or take a few more taxis.