Am I a Whiner?

[Tri Girl]

I don't think you're a whiner. I think your feelings are valid, and I'm sorry you are feeling that way.
Here's my thoughts: give 'em H-E double hockey sticks right back and don't feel bad about being a little crass. I'll bet Staci is their pet project because she's a sissy pants and they can tell her what to buy, how to ride, what to wear and she'll go along. You, however, have your own opinions and ideas and do your own thing. I agree that they're probably intimidated. How many of them can ride a horse, change their own oil, repair their own car, load bales of hay? Probably not one. I think they give you a hard time because they know you could drop 'em in a second in most any task (it's hard to be masculine when you shave your legs ).

[solobiker]

HI there Smurf, I too think that they are intimdated by you and are not sure how to act around you. From the sounds of it they are still quite young in many aspects. As you have already stated you have accomplished a lot and as for Whole Foods...Yes it is a nice store, but to me it is also Whole Paycheck. I go there occasionally for small items. If that is where they want to spend there time and money then good for them. For some I think it is a status symbol. You are in Boulder right?? Well, I better get off my soap box..back to the topic. No I don't think you are a whiner, they may be just testing you to see how far they can push you. Hang in ther and don't let them get you down.

[Fujichants]

Although it is easy to say 'who cares what others think about you', it is much harder to do it.

From personal experience, people who are weak get picked on more. I'm not saying that you are weak, but next time they make a joke on your expense, chime in! Be loud like them. Make fun of them. Just join in! That's just the way men are. If they make a comment about your bike, tell them you can kick Stacy's (that's her name right?) ***. Or any of their asses. They made fun of your jersey? Next time somebody walks in with something god-awful, make a sarcastic comment. Chances are, they don't know that your grandma suffered from diabetes. They make fun of your horse? Point to your legs and say you have no problem climbing hills because of the muscles you've developed riding your horse. Old man from the bike shop downstairs comes upstairs to check you out? Ask him where your coffee is. Doesn't have it? Then why is he up here? If you can't beat them, join them. You don't want to stick out like a sore thumb when the company culture encourages the type of behavior your colleagues exhibit.

The guys I ride with know not to mess with me because I can make lots of sarcastic comments about their shortcomings. When I do, the guy at the receiving end just shuts up and his buddies crack up. Boy dynamics. Same goes for my non-cycling guy friends.

[Flybye]

One of the ways guys "compliment" each other is through insult and teasing. It is part of their culture. You don't hear many men walk up to each other and say things like "you look good today" or "I think your girlfriend is pretty" or "wow, you are a great racer" BUT what they might say is "you are one ugly sucker" or "how did you score on someone like that?" or "you could barely keep yourself upright in that race" followed by a smack on the back.

We are different genders and for the most part communicate differently.

Lighten up, they are trying to incorporate you into their world. That is a huge compliment. Have some fun with it, and then find one of us on the other side to speak in our world terms.

[Irulan]

The best way I've found to deal with guys is just to give it right back to them. Have you ever seen the bumper sticker that says, "the more annoyed you get, the more fun it is for me?"

We have a couple of friends who's persona is basically "big jerk". They just want to see if they can get a rise out of people or not. I just dish it right back and have no problems.

[smurfalicious]

Although it is easy to say 'who cares what others think about you', it is much harder to do it.

From personal experience, people who are weak get picked on more. I'm not saying that you are weak, but next time they make a joke on your expense, chime in! Be loud like them. Make fun of them. Just join in! That's just the way men are. If they make a comment about your bike, tell them you can kick Stacy's (that's her name right?) ***. Or any of their asses. They made fun of your jersey? Next time somebody walks in with something god-awful, make a sarcastic comment. Chances are, they don't know that your grandma suffered from diabetes. They make fun of your horse? Point to your legs and say you have no problem climbing hills because of the muscles you've developed riding your horse. Old man from the bike shop downstairs comes upstairs to check you out? Ask him where your coffee is. Doesn't have it? Then why is he up here? If you can't beat them, join them. You don't want to stick out like a sore thumb when the company culture encourages the type of behavior your colleagues exhibit.

The guys I ride with know not to mess with me because I can make lots of sarcastic comments about their shortcomings. When I do, the guy at the receiving end just shuts up and his buddies crack up. Boy dynamics. Same goes for my non-cycling guy friends.

Ha ha I love it! I did lay the smack down one day about the jersey. I think it went something like, "Yeah, that's right, make fun of the jersey I earned on a ride I did in honor of my grandma who died from diabetes complications." Silence. It was truly golden.

I've been around guy culture all my life having two brothers and all. I get the joking and such, and usually I'm all for it but sometimes they can be really mean. I'm still the FNG and I get really intimidated sometimes.

I have been owning a lot of the **** they mock me for lately. The other day I left to commute home and I pulled the Tour de Cure jersey out of my backpack and held it up for Shaine to see and said, "Just for you, Shaine, just for you," with a big smile. The other day they were talking about Bob Roll being in town and Will said if I wanted to hook up with a dirty 60 year old man, Bob was the ticket. I laughed and said I'd schedule him in right after Hodge.

We have a really open office space and there's a huge conference table in the middle of the room. There's tradition of riding each others bikes in a circle around the table when boredom kicks in. I figure once I get my BMX bike I'll leave it at the office claiming I got it just to ride around the table.

Anyway, I am dying to try out the coffee line, that is priceless. Freak scared the crap out of me today. I went and grabbed lunch and just as I closed the door at the bottom of the stairwell he yanks it open and says, "Don't even say hi." Uh, number one, didn't see you, number two I have a policy of do not engage and finally you scared the poo out of me and almost made me drop my delicious greasy pizza.

Three days a week I do have an ally in Nadia. She owns a tri specialty shop and used to work there a while back. They were all scared to death of her! I being who I am started giving her **** from day one. She LOVES me. They are all in awe. One day I said something particularly sassy to me and I guess they were all frantically emailing each back and forth along the lines of, "can you believe she just did that?"

Oh, and for the record, if you ever have the opportunity to hitch your wagon to a bike with one gear, no freewheel, no brakes, and go hurtling around corners banked at 45 degrees, I highly recommend it. More on that and pics later, but I will so be there again Friday. It's like Disneyland, Six Flags and bikes all in one.

[shootingstar]

I agree with Tuckerville that not all guys are jokey insulting. Just many are.

After all some guys once, upon a time when they were boys, were the butt of jokes constantly, or even bullied...and fortunately, some didn't want to exercise the same sort of horseplay when they became adult.

And the guys who don't..might not say much, hence, you don't notice them immediately.

[Running Mommy]

Ohhh smurfy....I'm so sad for you! I wish you could come work in our shop. The boyz make fun of me, but I just tell them to shove it, and they go away.
In fact when they see me on this website they refer to it as "the men suck website"....
No men don't suck, just the dolts behind me!!

I think you need a zebra pro xl!!!

[WindingRoad]

Smurf I FEEL your pain. I too work in a LBS and constantly get teased to the point of I wonder if I have a target painted on my back. It really is like the other girls here are saying... they are still 10 years old. Remember in grade school when boys liked a girl they teased her relentlessly. It doesn't change, they just get taller and more annoying. They can't help it... they don't know any better. It's like when my cat pee's outside of the box sometimes... I realize she's not the smartest knife in the drawer. God love her but she isn't. She still doesn't understand peeing IN the box means you have to cover it up IN the box not OUT of the floor. Guys are much the same. They just don't understand. I don't have a dog but I hear that flipping them on the nose when they jump on you is how you teach them not to do that. Maybe this works with men? Hmmmm. But seriously.... keep your sense of humor about you. If they know they are bothering you they will most likely get worse. Guys bust each others chops with their buddies and they don't understand that women don't like that. I get harassed while riding with guys so frequently that I just smile and go on anymore. It's always nice to give them a smirk and drop their ***. I'm sorry but that is still so fun. Does that make me a man hater? Don't let them get under your skin it's easiest just to blow them off.

[Crankin]

While I have been known to "give it right back" to disgusting comments and actions from men, I have to agree with Bleeker. This is harassment and I would not put up with it for a minute. Not all guys are like this! The longer all of us let s*** like this go on, the longer they will keep doing it. Sorry, I don't ascribe to the humor them theory.
Now I know that Smurf really wanted this job and I also know that she is pretty young (well, compared to me). A firm "Stop right now... enough" might stop the comments.
And I have found it not to be a wise thing to socialize with people I work with. This doesn't mean you can't be friendly, but like I used to tell my students,"Friendly, not friends," when I would explain that they had to work with others who they weren't friends with or didn't otherwise like.

[Tuckervill]

If I thought all my hard work raising three sons to respect women would go right out the window because "that's the way guys are", I'd be in despair.

"Guys" aren't "like that". My husband is not. My sons are not. I expect them to behave appropriately, no excuses. When they hurt someone's feelings, I expect them to stop, and then apologize. I don't care if they don't believe what they did was wrong. If the person they offended feels offended, I expect them to acknowledge that and apologize, or at least KNOCK IT OFF.

Tell them to KNOCK IT OFF, Smurf. They deserve it.

Karen

[smurfalicious]

I'll bet Staci is their pet project because she's a sissy pants and they can tell her what to buy, how to ride, what to wear and she'll go along.

Yeah, I think that has a lot to do with it. They've got her convinced she needs a WSD bike. I don't see it but okay. I never even thought about it that way. They don't care about me buying a new bike because they can't talk me out of it. I love the girl to bits, but she's pretty malleable.

Twas a skosh annoying when they all rooted for her the other day at the track. Had I not been thinking about my own mortality and lack of health insurance I'm pretty sure I could have lapped her. Hauling butt for short periods of time is muh specialty. So good at it I taught my horse how to do it too!

[Irulan]

he other day they were talking about Bob Roll being in town and Will said if I wanted to hook up with a dirty 60 year old man, Bob was the ticket. I laughed and said I'd schedule him in right after Hodge.

This and the reference to the old guy who keeps coming up to talk to you, makes thing of borderline harassment. You might think about that.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Though I realize the tactic of 'slinging it right back' to the guys is intended to be helpful, I think in the long term it just encourages them to go further and further with their inappropriate remarks and behavior.
It's like little boys being as bad as they can be, forever searching for where the boundaries are, testing to find the limits of their parents' permissiveness.

In the beginning of this thread you expressed that you were uncomfortable with how the guys at work were picking on you and teasing you. Doing it back to them seems to me to merely encourage more of the same behavior from them, while encouraging them to go further and further. It becomes a competition of who can shock the most and push the envelope the furthest. I think they need to grow up a little.
Please don't take this the wrong way, but- this whole workplace dance situation you describe is starting to sound pretty immature. I realize this stuff is fairly common in workplaces. But is this the way YOU want to behave?- that's the real question. We can't control how others behave, we can only control our own behavior. Others then treat us in response to our behavior. You have the right to behave in a way that is true to yourself and comfortable if you so choose.

Out of the workplace, we have more ability to avoid people and behavior we don't enjoy. In the work environment you are stuck with dealing with the same people day after day. It's a rather artificial environment that can so easily become unpleasant and really effect our daily mental attitude and moods. I once quit a job where the husband/boss was subtly emotionally abusive towards his wife who also worked there. No one did a thing to me and I loved that job, but being around that demeaning atmosphere made me feel yucky all day. I told them both honestly why I was quitting, too. Not saying you should quit, just relating one example of how workplace environment/mood effects us in our daily lives.

In any case, enough rambling on my part...it's of course your decision how you want to handle yourself.
Maybe the give-the crap-right-back-to-them technique is working well for you at the moment and might truly be a good option, I don't really know your situation in detail. Just giving my own biased opinion. As I've gotten older, I've found that being up front about my boundaries has worked better for me in the long run in most all situations that beg for change.

[Selkie]

Bleecker, I agree 100%.

There is no way I'd put up with that sort of behavior in the workplace, either as an employee or a manager. The management there needs to put an end to it asap. It's a hostile work environment, at a minimum, and from what the OP has described, sexual harassment seems acceptable there.

I don't care if the "guys" are immature and are supposedly being "playful." That sort of thing can be a not-so-subtle way for misogynists to put down women. It really ticks me off.

It's up to the OP to either accept the situation or do something about it.