THEY GOT HIM! Follow up to cyclist killed...

[pkq]

I would hope if I did not commit pre-meditated murder, the penalty would be less. If he could have avoided killing the cyclists and didn't, 4 years is insufficient. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[bikerchick68]

no, he did not intentionally kill the cyclist... it appears to be a true accident...and IF he had stopped would have been charged with a misdemeanor...

the reason I find this so upsetting is that he left the scene, with the cyclist DYING in the road... where he was then HIT by 2 other cars. A cement truck driver stopped to help and block the road...

If the original guy had stopped, the cyclist MAY have lived... but when the driver fled, the cyclist was left lying out in the road... I understand people panicking, but man, where's your conscience? LEAVING the scene IS intentional... if he left and then realized he shouldn't have he COULD have gone back right away! Instead he drove by 4 hours later with a smashed hood and windshield...and then lied about it... I just can't imagine looking at myself in the mirror... he didn't admit t it until he failed a lie detector test and the DNA came back as the cyclists...

now he is being charged with manslaughter and felony fleeing a scene... I don't think 4 yrs is enough... if that was YOUR husband, would it be enough? (no need to answer, just think about it... yikes!) It's a tough and emotional story...

[Irulan]

Sorry ladies. I"m not used to that type of stereotyping. I didn't recognize it for what it was. Ooops - my bad.

Edit: arghh. I'm not about to defend a murderer, but I hate seeing this stuff. What if one of our dear members is Mexican? What if one of us loves someone of Mexican descent. Let's string up the murderers, but let's not alienate (no pun intended) all people of a certain nationality. Once we disassociate with one group, where do you draw the line? (end rant...)

I didn't take any of this thread as going after a nationality with a brush, the discussion is whether the person in question has legal status or not When you live in an area where a significant portion of the population is in reality, of illegal status, then I see that it is an entirely reasonable point of discussion.

irulan

[drplasma64]

the reason I find this so upsetting is that he left the scene, with the cyclist DYING in the road... where he was then HIT by 2 other cars. A cement truck driver stopped to help and block the road...

If the original guy had stopped, the cyclist MAY have lived... but when the driver fled, the cyclist was left lying out in the road... I understand people panicking, but man, where's your conscience? LEAVING the scene IS intentional... if he left and then realized he shouldn't have he COULD have gone back right away!
<snip>
now he is being charged with manslaughter and felony fleeing a scene... I don't think 4 yrs is enough... if that was YOUR husband, would it be enough?
<snip>
It's a tough and emotional story...

Wow, I didn't know any details other than what was in the OP, really how horrible to be hit repeatedly, and how does that happen? Do they know how long between the original accident and when he was hit again (and did all those people call 911?)

I think leaving the scene is yes, intentional, but the result of panic. Yes, he shouldn't have left. if he did leave, he should've gone back, and if he couldn't do that he should've called 911. No question - those are the humane & rational decisions. And he is going to have to live with the consequences of not doing any of those things for the rest of his life. Hopefully, if he has a conscience, it will teach him something from this. Personally, if it were me, even if I had stayed and reported it (which of course I would've done), I wouldn't be able to look at myself in the mirror, even though it was a true accident.

Is there medical evidence that the cyclist might have lived if he had gotten help right away, or is that just speculation by the media? B/c I think if there is medical evidence about that, it would make a difference in the charges.

Personally, I have no problem with 4 years for this kind of situation. I'd rather have this guy out on the street than all the rapists and pedophiles. I think this is a case where lots and lots of community service and revoking the drivers license is appropriate.

BTW, my grandmother was killed in a car accident. Two young men speeding through a school zone ran a red light and she was critically injured, dying in the hospital a week later. Although she got medical attention immediately, no criminal charges, not even a ticket, was filed against the other driver, even though witnesses & evidence determined going through the light and the speed issue. So I've thought about this type of situation a lot. Not trying to be argumentative, or look for sympathy, just trying to show that I don't take this situation lightly.

It is sad and tragic. And totally unfair. The man lost his life, his parents lost their son, his wife lost her soulmate. I hope they all find peace.

[Irulan]

you may be interested to read about the Cooper Jones death here in WA. Cooper was a Jr Olympic hopeful, who was hit from behind by a little old lady with the sun in her eyes, who evidently didn't read the "riders on road" signs put on the road by the cycleing cub. He died on the side of the road. Anyway, the lady was fined $250 and not even required to take a driver's liscense retest. The whole thing prompted a reexamination of the laws in this state.

http://www.baddlands.org/cooper_jones/background.htm

[pkq]

bikerchick, I wasn't thinking at all about him leaving the scene, which he shouldn't have done. Fear drives panic. If my husband had been hit, initially I would want to throw the book at the driver. I hope after time my position would soften. That's one good reason for the law and calmer heads to prevail.

[Pedal Wench]

I didn't take any of this thread as going after a nationality with a brush, the discussion is whether the person in question has legal status or not When you live in an area where a significant portion of the population is in reality, of illegal status, then I see that it is an entirely reasonable point of discussion.

irulan

Irulan, I understand your point, but I saw the 'brush'. For some reason, it really just rubbed me wrong to see that the perp had a latin name, and someone's first thought was to questioned his legality - and truly didn't mean his driving record. I understand that people who live in that area might have that problem with others in their region. But, everyone has populations different than themselves in their region, and to make derogatory comments based on race or nationality - for whatever reason just rubs me wrong.

I've been the target of bigotry - to my face - because someone was too ignorant to think that I could belong to the group they were cutting down. "Oh, those ***'s, they're all the same..." Hear that, directed towards yourself, and you'll notice it instantly when directed at others. I also have a step-daughter of a different race (I divorced her dad, but you never divorce the children!) and people think it's okay to tell me a racial joke, or make a racial slur (which the 'legal' comment struck me as.) I'm obviously overly-sensitive about this issue, so I'll let it go.

I don't live in California, so I can't imagine the problem in that area. I'm sorry the situation is so bad. I'll leave this subject alone, since I don't understand it.

Letting it go....

[bikerchick68]

this is such a great board... it's so nice to have "hot topic" conversations without resorting to angry bashing, which happens on many other boards...

pkq- yep, thank goodness for hopefully impartial juries and judges! I have pretty strong feelings about our laws and legal system and think sometimes we are far too lenient and other times far too harsh... but I work with law enforcement so my views are based on what I SEE personally... hard to remain impartial sometimes... I still feel bitter over an coworker who was killed by a drunk driver... since it was her first offense she only got 18 months for killing him (he was riding his bike home from work)... out in 9 months on "good behavior"... my coworker is gone forever... a permanent sentence due to her lack of responsibility...

drplasma... I don't know what the medical evidence is... but he was alive when the cement truck driver stopped... died on scene is my understanding... I am apalled that the boys who killed your grandmother didn't even get ticketed! wow... again, lack of responsibility... as to this situation, I will be surprised if he gets 4 yrs... he is 58 yrs old and on kidney dialysis... most likely his sentence will be less that 4 yrs... it must be devastating for HIS family too... his actions impacted so many people...

Irulan... another disturbing story... I guess I just can't understand how we are not holding people accountable for their actions... I don't have any perfect solution and don't have the answer... but it makes me sad...

AudioA... after 9/11 happened, my niece called me from Seattle... very frightened as she is half Saudi Arabian and looks middle eastern... she had not yet had a problem but was scared about the stereotyping that might be coming based on her appearance... I understand your sensitivity... and appreciate your stand on this as well as respect your responses...

[nicolezoie]

As someone who commutes to and from work, this story hit me extra hard. I've been on edge whenever some dumbass driver gets too close or rolls a stopsign in my path. I've been overly vocal at times, sometimes too much.

For the amount of cyclists in the San Diego County area, there should be MORE awareness than there is. And, I think that penalties for car versus bike should be higher - let's be pragmatic for a moment here. Two cars crash into eachother - drivers are surrounded by steel & padding, and sometimes airbags, and they usually walk away with a few scratches and bruises. Car versus bike, no contest, cyclist usually DIES. The laws and penalties should reflect this.

Some drivers are no more than big bullies who think they own the road, and sincerely believe that bikes don't belong anywhere. Hey. I work an honest living trying to survive. I pay taxes that support the maintenance of those roads. I own the road just as much as Joe Suburban or Marcy Minivan does.

That "bump" in the road could have been our brother, sister, cousin, aunt, uncle, or friend.

p.s. as far as the Illegal immigration problem is concerned, it's HUGE here. They estimate that at least 25% of the drivers in San Diego County alone are uninsured and illegal immigrants. It's similar with other boarder communities as well.

[pkq]

A cousin of mine was killed by a drunk driver 21 years ago. He was on his way to Baton Rouge for a state meeting and met a car load of soldiers returning to Fort Polk from an all-nighter; yep, they were all drunk. My cousin drove his huge Buick Delta88 onto the shoulder to avoid them but his headlights attracted the driver of the Toyota. The soldiers were not harmed at all. My cousin's chest was crushed by the steering wheel. In the wee morning hours, there is little traffic on that road so help didn't reach him in time. The drunk driver served no time as my aunt and uncle decided to not press charges. They felt he would carry this the rest of his life. I believe he has as it really turned him around.

Life is full of strange twists and turns. I couldn't have been as understanding as my aunt and uncle but they had years I still lack.