Are you as appalled as I am?

[Mr. Bloom]

Buying a car 'better' than volunteering in a soup kitchen? ... but yes both acts can help our world in their own ways. Unfortunately not all people can afford to buy new cars anymore...or even used cars for that matter.

Back to my original post on this very complex and emotional matter:

• People who can and do acquire goods (they don't have to be expensive) fuel the economy that employs people. Don't resent what people buy and don't assume that people who own expensive items are appalling (and to be frank, this is the emotionally charged word that triggered my original response...but I think I took it much more emotionally than it was intended)
• Selfishness is often not determined by what you own, but by your attitude, especially toward others. Many with resources are generous with their time and money and are INCONSPICUOUS in their giving (and IMHO inconspicuous giving and a willingness to get involved at street level is the antithesis of appalling behavior)
  
  I appreciate the lively debate. Frankly, it's challenged my perspective on some things in a good way. Thanks.

[Crankin]

Thank you, Mr. Silver. In my world, there are a lot of people who might buy a car as a present. If I look at the crowds in Concord center, I might wonder what all this stuff on the news is. People are tightening their belts, but I don't see empty restaurants or stores. Our housing market hasn't burst as much as in the Sunbelt. I recently read home prices have gone down 5% here, as opposed to 32% in AZ. I was literally shocked when I saw all of the foreclosure signs when I was out there in September.
Back to what Mr. Silver said... many of those people buying what some consider to be appalling cars are also giving "appalling" amounts of money to various causes.

[Flur]

Many people who aren't worried now will be directly effected as the economic situation worsens, and just about all the expects agree that it is going to continue to worsen before it starts to get better.

Buying a car 'better' than volunteering in a soup kitchen? I find that logic to be debatable, but yes both acts can help our world in their own ways. Unfortunately not all people can afford to buy new cars anymore...or even used cars for that matter.

What keeps the economy going is spending. For example, if a bunch of people shop at Target this year, Target will have a good year, won't have to lay anyone off. This keeps jobs. People who have jobs are more likely to spend and continue the cycle. So every time someone with the means to do so spends money, they are helping to ward off further economic downturn.

The "experts" are actually fueling the economic downturn, by telling people it's going to get worse. This causes people to hold their money, which means less spending and more layoffs.

So, yeah, spending money allows people to keep their jobs, which allows them to keep their homes, which keeps them from becoming homeless and needing to go to soup kitchens. Which would you rather have, a job or a bowl of soup?

[Biciclista]

a spending economy? I'm supposed to keep spending to keep Walmart afloat?
and you don't see anything wrong with that idea?
the spending economy doesn't work. There have been less skilled jobs every year in the USA for about 20 years now. Lots of jobs in retail, yeah, THAT's a great career for someone.
Do you know that saving used to be considered virtuous? that PRESIDENTS used to tell us to save money?
The proof of how artificial this idea can be seen easily. At the slightest scare, we quit spending.
why? because we don't need that stuff. People are still buying essentials. If you take a look you'll see that grocery stores aren't laying folks off.
But maybe we're not buying that third pair of shoes, that extra sweater, all those toys those kids aren't going to want after they take them out of the package?
It's all STUFF that we don't need. Look, I'm as guilty as the next person, I have more bikes, shoes, sweaters, books, and even cars than I need!

Don't spend. Save.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

What keeps the economy going is spending. For example, if a bunch of people shop at Target this year, Target will have a good year, won't have to lay anyone off. This keeps jobs. People who have jobs are more likely to spend and continue the cycle. So every time someone with the means to do so spends money, they are helping to ward off further economic downturn.

The "experts" are actually fueling the economic downturn, by telling people it's going to get worse. This causes people to hold their money, which means less spending and more layoffs.

So, yeah, spending money allows people to keep their jobs, which allows them to keep their homes, which keeps them from becoming homeless and needing to go to soup kitchens. Which would you rather have, a job or a bowl of soup?

Well I don't agree with this. It's the basis of the theory that has been put into effect for years now, but we are now seeing where it leads. It's an over-simplified idea that is no longer working very well because of many complex factors.

First of all, the average American has OVERSPENT and has large credit card debts, car loans, mortgages, college loans, and other debts already.
They owe overblown mortgage payments which were poorly calculated at way beyond their means. Some are already losing their homes or having to sell their homes in order to downsize or rent. (I know a couple of friends already who are now forced to sell their homes, people who never had money problems before, people whose businesses have dropped off by 50% over the past year, and they simply can no longer continue making their mortgage payments- they have already gone through much of their savings trying to keep the mortgage payments going despite losing jobs and getting sick without health insurance.)
This has been going on for a while now.

Many people are without health insurance now and simply DON'T HAVE the money for it. (I can barely afford mine now at $475/month for myself). Only the wealthy can now afford to send in $100-150 per WEEK for health insurance, or those with jobs that have great benefits (such jobs are harder and harder to find nowadays). People are LOSING THEIR JOBS or are having to take two or more part time jobs (with no benefits or health insurance of course) in order to buy food and pay rent.

Sure there are plenty of people who are not yet feeling any financial pain and there are some who won't for one reason or another. Yet these are people whom I do not consider to be of average income or in average situations. They are well off. They say we should all buy more things. ....buy more things with what?- credit cards that are already over loaded with debt??
Should I get my tooth crown fixed this month and make my next health insurance payment and give my daughter $200 so she can make her rent this month between jobs, or should I go and spend that $1500 on Christmas presents?? Gee, what a hard decision!

Most Americans are in hock already up to their eyeballs (our grandparents would have been horrified by the debts people now considered 'average').
And the solution is to spend more, charge more new stuff on our credit cards and take out more new car loans? Sounds lovely, but it doesn't sound much like the planet I live on.