WoolWeenies Club

[Triskeliongirl]

Wow, keep the tips coming. When I visited Crankin in Boston, I wore a goretex pant over my jeans, and was OK but felt really dorky. I then proceeded to buy a primaloft coat and tall boots which worked fine in Boston over jeans and ibex on top, but I think it was only in the 30s.

But, now I am looking for travel clothes to take me from southern portugal to switzerland with the smallest number of pieces that can be combined in lots of different ways. And I think Switzerland will be colder than Boston was, and I will want to ski. I guess this is getting mixed up cuz its not always clear which responses are good for just walking around vs skiing, and I guess I am looking for clothes that in different combinations will work for both. So, its sounding like if I want to add one more piece the alpstar pant will do it, I just need some sizing help on it from anyone that owns it (do your actual body measurements match the size you ordered?).

But Catriona gave me another idea. The shebeest windpro tight is lined with powerfleece. I have one pair of wool pants that are a size too big, so if its really cold in switzerland I could put the tight on under the pants, and if its less cold pair them with the woolies for walking around.

[Cataboo]

Another thing to keep in mind are wool camisoles - ibex pointelle or the icebreaker ones. Those are great for layering and can be worn alone in warmer climates with a wool zip up over it. Portugal's probably still going to be in the 50's?

[Triskeliongirl]

Oh Catriona, you have me so overwhelmed. I just looked at that arcteyrx tau pant and it looks lovely for walking around.

Maybe I should order both the alpster and tau pants in assorted sizes, and return what doesn't work.....

I do have a number of ibex tank tops that I use for around here under blouses, so I am good with those. But that's another great idea, layering those under one of my base layers.

So, while I know everyone is diff, Catriona tell me another thing, what would be the warmest temperature you would wear the tau and alpster out in (not for sports now, just walking around). I know that I froze in DC in lined wool dress pants in the 30s with wind (I think it was the wind went right through them), but I had no base layer on either.

[Cataboo]

What I'd take:
Top layers:
Maybe 1 short sleeve wool shirt if you have one in case it's warm in Portugal.

A couple wool tank tops or camisoles

1 full zip wool layer or fleece layer.

At least 2 lightweight wool tops - icebreaker chakra or their 150 weight stuff.

Your ibex shaks or comparable 260-320 weight icebreaker.

If you need more warmth - bringing a vest along would be useful. A lot of the down ones fold in on themselves and don't use up a lot of space. You can sometimes get the kids north face nuptse vests pretty cheap and the kids large & x-large are actually quite big.

You seem to like jeans, so take your jeans.... They'll be fine for portugal and with your woolies or your sheebeast tights underneath them you'll probably be fine. But if you were putting your goretex pants over the jeans in boston, maybe you won't be.

1 pair of either goretex shell pants or some sort of softshell pants for skiing - You can probably do it in the ibex alpstars, but if you've already got the goretex shell pants, just stick with those. Softshell pants are more comfortable than goretex, they're warmer and you won't look as goofy just walking around town in them.

A couple pairs of ibex woolies (I dno't know how long your trip is and how many times you want to wear the same wool over and over - so if you don't want to change clothes to much - you can leave this off) or smartwool or icebreaker tights. If you had to, you could make them layer over each other for more warmth.

1 thicker pair of baselayers - your sheebeast tights if you want, or whatever

Wool hat of some sort.

A balaclava of some sort - I like the seirus windproof ones (this is for skiing)

Scarf

Gloves - I usually use a thin liner glove - there's the arc'teryx delegate ones that are wool, or patagonia capilene, and then a thicker layer over that (arc'teryx has nice fleecy ones and REI's got some nice midweight gloves), and then a goretex or waterproof shell over that. I also sometimes just use a softshell type glove with a shell over that. If you buy an insulated glove and bring it - if you need to adjust anything while skiing you get cold when you take them off. If you need brands or suggestions of these, let me know and I can go look.

Socks:
If you bring tall smartwool socks for skiing - remember those can also be used for layering when you're going around town in your jeans & woolies. I usually use a capilene liner sock under my ski socks. I don't like wearing more than that while skiing.

And you can decide on whatever other casual clothes you want.

It's going to depend somewhat on how windy it is and how you acclimatize to the temperature. I find after a few days skiing, I'm walking around town with my jacket & fleece completely unzipped because compared to the top of the mountain, it really doesn't feel all that cold.

[Biciclista]

yeah, 50's is like a warm Seattle winter day (as opposed to a cold Seattle winter day) and that sounds like a lot too much to wear while riding.
When the temp is 40 degrees, I need a light hat, warm gloves (or double gloves)
a light-medium wool inside layer (think of a cashmere sweater) then on top of that, a bike jersey and on top of that a raincoat. add booties and that's really it for that temperate. when it's in the 50's I wear just that inside sweater and a jersey on top and maybe a light vest - while riding.

m

[Cataboo]

Oh Catriona, you have me so overwhelmed. I just looked at that arcteyrx tau pant and it looks lovely for walking around.

Maybe I should order both the alpster and tau pants in assorted sizes, and return what doesn't work.....

So, while I know everyone is diff, Catriona tell me another thing, what would be the warmest temperature you would wear the tau and alpster out in (not for sports now, just walking around). I know that I froze in DC in lined wool dress pants in the 30s with wind (I think it was the wind went right through them), but I had no base layer on either.

Alright, I live sort of northeast of the dc area, closer to the mountains so it tends to be a little cooler out here. It's snowing out there now and 34 degrees. I just went out and stood outside in my tau pants and I found it doable. I only have ankle socks on, and I've have preferred taller socks because the pants are a little loose around the ankle. So I'd wear the tau pants to maybe 30 degrees and then stick some ibex woolies underneath. Probably the same with the alpstar pants. I was wearing the alpstar pants at Keystone in Colorado last February without base layers underneath them and walking around. (I think without base layers) without a problem. I don't know the temperature, but it was cold and at a ski resort.

On top I was cold, but I'm only wearing an ibex camisole & a patagonia synchilla hoody (also an extremely warm layer), and I just got back from a bike ride so I'm a little chilled in general.

On the bike ride I was wearing the tau pants, ankle socks, and some 3/4 length cycling tights - if I did it again, I'd put longer socks on or some leg warmers. I only stayed out for 20 mins, long enough to start getting warmed up, but to severely regret not taking some sort of face cover or thicker gloves. (so I wimped out and came back to the house)

Last week in the 30 degree DC temps - I think I was wearing my prana fleece lined pants and was fine walking about - but I really didn't do much walking about outside other than back and forth to my car. I think I spent sometime walking around at night on my cell phone because it wasn't working in the house, and I think I was wearing my tau pants then without a problem.

I should really not show you more arc'teryx stuff, because it's a more expensive addiction than ibex...

However a really nice arc'teryx layer is the arc'teryx emissary. There's a hoody version. I'd say it's similar to the shak, but heavier weight and it's wool.
http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/out...rt-Womens.html

[Triskeliongirl]

Thanks everyone for all the help, and Catriona, don't bother to look up the sizing tonite. I was worried the backcountry 20% off sale would end today, and I am gonna be busy tonite, so I went ahead and ordered all three pants you recommended: the ibex alpstar, the praana and the art'yrex tau in a couple of sizes each. I'll only keep what I love. I actually do this a lot, especially until I learn how the sizing runs in brands I am not used to. While I try to get things on sale, I am pretty selective about what I buy, I won't buy something just cuz its on sale, I have to really love it. Hence, the Ibex addiction..................... WHile I love my arc-tyrex parka, I think Ibex will always be first in my heart, the arc-tyrex folks use too many synthetics for my taste. I even bought and returned a fleece they make that is the same color as my parka, but then returned it cuz I didn't really like the fleece and worried it would get stinky traveling.

I must admit though, I am *most excited* about the ibex alpstar pant, but I'll give the others a shot too (afterall this is the wool weenies and not winter apparel thread.......). I really think at this point my bottom is my problem. In fact, the main reason I bought my long primaloft coat last year, was to keep my bottom half from getting cold, and the first thing I noticed when I tried to wear the arctyrex parka in DC last week, was how cold my lower body felt. So, I think this means I've got the top thing down (and I only had 1 shak and 1 light base on, so room for more on top when I go to a colder place). I even own a patagonia down vest, and while it fits under my parka, it does make me look puffier than I like but yeh, it folds down real small so probably is a piece I should bring along.

Another interesting tidbit about owning stuff for very cold weather as a person that lives in a mild climate, is that we don't have central heating either in our house here or in our family home in portugal, so I do need warmer stuff indoors than folks that live in cold places. In fact, what drove me crazy in DC is that stuff I wear here in san antonio everyday at work had me overheating there in interiors. Same thing in Boston. But, then they don't sell this kind of clothing here, so its really hard to get sized, etc. for mail orders. UPS is definitely my friend................. Can't wait to get home tonite and try on my hooded shak. But given I already have 2 full zip shaks, I just know I'm gonna love it.......................

[Cataboo]

Great! I have a huge return box currently to go back to backcountry/sac/chainlove. So as you can with my extensive knowledge of all ibex & arc'teryx pieces, I end up ordering & returning a lot with them as well.

The only fleece from arc'teryx that I think is worth buying is the maverick sv. My all time favorite fleece is the patagonia lw r4 - hands down the warmest fleece for weight.

Arc'teryx does have a wool line - the rho w line, the emissary, and a few other pieces, but it's not really their strong point. Their hardshells, softshells, and packs are.

I have a lot of wool - but I still keep a lot of my synthetic stuff for different purposes.

Is the ibex shak full zip any heavier than the half zip or the hoody? I've got 3 of the half zips & 1 hoody. NOt that I need any more wool fullzips

I hope I didn't lead you astray with any of my suggestions.

[Cataboo]

What's even worse in DC is the summers - where it's 95 degrees out + 95% humidity, and the air conditioning makes it 70 degrees indoors....

So if you dress for the weather, you freeze to death inside.

[Triskeliongirl]

Well, I am a bit disappointed by the hooded shak, probably it will go back. It does let me add another layer, but it fits kind of like a sack or sweat shirt, not the sleek fit of the full zip shaks.

Catriona, the fabric is thinner than the full zip shak, and the cut is longer, although I am comparing a medium hoodie to a small full zip. Perhaps I don't like the cut cuz I got the medium, and while it layers just fine over my small full zip shak, the cut of the sleeves makes me start to feel too constricted around my arm pits yet its baggy around my torso. I also don't like the finger thingies either, and not sure I really need the hood since I have plenty of hats and neck gaitors (and it looks goofy on me). So..........back it goes.

But, the good news is I tried Lisa's suggestion of layering more under my shak. I didn't think I had room, but I got two midweight shirts under just fine (a norgie crew and zepher zip T in the same color, both smalls, and it looks cool together). Then I put my medium PI gavia jacket over that and my medium arc'tyrex parka over that, and had plenty of room to move since the sleeves of the gavia are less constricting than double shaking felt. I also like that my top 3 layers are full zips as I move indoors.

I like the woolie bottoms, they are very soft, and fit well, although they come quite high above my natural waist, and they are a tad long. Can I expect them to shrink a little? But, I am not sure that coming up so high is such a big deal, since its covered by my shirts. What surprised me is that they fit even under my slimmest cut size 4 pants. So, now I have to decide if I shouldn't worry about them coming so high. I did try a smartwool bottom on in a store and it was lower cut, so I could replace them with those. But I have had better luck with Ibex over smartwool, so not sure what to do. I think I'll probably keep them, Perhaps having the waistband come some high will just keep me warmer and helps them fit better under pants.

Catriona, you were a great help to me today! I know I went a little crazy on the pants order, but I really need to try this stuff on. I do hope I like the fit of the alpstar pant, as its my favorite from the pix and description, and I may have ordered too large on some since I keep overestimating my size, but that's in part cuz I lost 35 pounds 1.5 years ago, but still can't accept that I am really small on the bottom. I was really surprised how much looser small woolies felt than the small smartwool midweight tights I tried on in a store. I just can't seem to figure out my size.

[Triskeliongirl]

Well I am finally 'getting it'. You guys must think I am such an idiot, but its really hard to figure out how to dress in a place that is a lot colder than where you live. But I woke up this morning, and it was cold in my house (remember no central heating) which made it a lot easier to try things own.

I continued to explore Lisa's idea of putting two base layers under a shak. DUH........ why didn't I try it before? I think cuz it was already so close fitting but its fine. Today I paired a kate with a norgie crew. Then I dug out my LLBean fleece in small sizes from 20 years ago, and it paired over that just great, with or without a shak underneath. So, I am absolutely set on top.

I was sitting in my freezing cold family room drinking coffee (just fired up the gas radiator but it hadn't kicked in yet, and never gets the large space it has to heat terribly warm), toasty warm on top, but cold on the bottom. SO, I slipped a pair of woolies on under my jeans. Yeh, the waistband sits higher than the top of my jeans, but with the kate tucked in over it no one can tell. Hmmm, toasty warm. Warm enough to go to the cold garage and dig out my husband's winter clothes (as he stayed indoors wrapped in a down comforter). These are a keeper..........

I don't know why I thought I needed to size up my clothes to fit more layers underneath. These pieces are so thin its just not a problem. A guy in an outdoor shop explained to me that the shaks are really designed to wear over a base, not over another shak, which is why sizing up just didn't work for me. He also pressed me to get smalls when I wasn't sure on stuff, explaining that these layers are designed to fit close to the body to work well.

For layering over my shak, I decided that I like garments that are my size (small), but designed for layering so they had wider arms. I know double shaking works great for a lot of you, but maybe my arms are thicker or something. But, the good news is that since my daughter is coming home for thanksgiving next week, I can let her try on all the medium stuff I ordered and see if any of it works for her before making the return packages (and its very hard for her to find time to shop as a busy student which is why she asked me to get her the woolies in the first place). I bet the hooded shak is a great piece for a college student in boston who doesn't own any ibex yet, its a beautiful garment it just doesn't fit me.......... I also ordered on the midlayer zip Ts on TE with the coupon in M, but now realize it won't fit, but it would also look lovely with her grey suit or under a shak..... She recently lost 20 lb and went form a L to a M, so she also needs some new clothes. SO, now I don't feel so ridiculous that I ordered so many things in so many diff. sizes, maybe I'll help her also even out her wardrobe.

I am so glad I bought the arc'tyrex parka. I got the idea from Catriona's response to wackyjacky who querried about columbia 3-in-1s. I have an old columbia 3-in-1 but its too big, so I too was looking for a better approach. I knew in theory layering under a goretex shell was better, but then it took me a long time to figure out exactly how to do it. I bought most of my ibex on closeout last year, so it was a bit random, but now I am finally figuring it all out. Some of what I need to do in europe is professional, some is vacation, some is active sports, and I am still amazed how I can combine the very same pieces in different ways to generate combinations that work for all 3. That is why I am a wool weenie/ibex addict!

[Triskeliongirl]

Thanks for the input Mimi! I do understand what to wear to ride my bike at any temperature. Its how to deal with trips to very cold places (i.e. teens to 20s) and skiing that I am working out now, or trips that take in a wide range of climates. But with everyones help here, I've got a plan! Another problem for me is that when I travel, I am not acclimated, so often I need to dress warmer than folks that live in a place. But the breathability of merino works so well even if I overdo I am usually still OK.

yeah, 50's is like a warm Seattle winter day (as opposed to a cold Seattle winter day) and that sounds like a lot too much to wear while riding.
When the temp is 40 degrees, I need a light hat, warm gloves (or double gloves)
a light-medium wool inside layer (think of a cashmere sweater) then on top of that, a bike jersey and on top of that a raincoat. add booties and that's really it for that temperate. when it's in the 50's I wear just that inside sweater and a jersey on top and maybe a light vest - while riding.

m

[Triskeliongirl]

OK, I know you are sick of my posts, so I promise this will be the last one. While my woolies feel so comfy, when I took my pants off I realized the fit is rather loose. Then I noticed they come in XS. Never in my life have I been an XS in anything, but should they hug the body, or should they feel a little loose? Will they shrink? I also don't want them to be too small or they'll tear more. Any thoughts? I know the smartwool fits more snugly in the same size, but I read reviews that they tear quite easily.

[Crankin]

I would think woolies should be on the tighter side; too loose and they might not fit under other stuff.
What size I wear depends totally on the brand! Size creep is a wonderful thing. Seriously, I am a true extra small in Ibex tops, but a small on the bottom. However, there some Ibex styles in pants that I just can't wear. The x smalls are way too tight and the smalls are too big. I don't have any woolies, so I can't be specific, but you may well wear an x small.
My red half zip Shak came already! I know you didn't like the feel of it, but it is good for hiking as either an mid layer or top layer. I wore my black one once for cycling in the cold and it was too warm! I also ordered 2 micro weight smart wool tops, but I have to try those on...

[Triskeliongirl]

Dear Wool Weenies, I nearly succombed to the purchase of a patagonia down sweater yesterday. But then, I got a new idea. While double shaking didn't work for me, when I got to work this morning, I saw my ibex full zip boucle hanging up (looks like a full zip shak but made from boucle not shak wool), which I know has a snugger fit than my shaks, even though the size is the same. So, I asked what would happen if I slipped it on between the Smartwool mideweight half zip T I had just gotten from TE (which is lovely by the way despite being a M.........) and my shak, and bingo, I've got my heavier merino layers down!

So, what I am learning, is that sizing in this stuff is CRAZY, even within one line. While I clearly prefer small tops in ibex, I think I am gonna need an XS woolie bottom (which is on order..........). When the med SM midweight full zip arrived from TE, I was pleasantly surprised that I liked the fit. I wanted to compare it to a small, so I went to a store nearby that stocks limited SM. What I found is that both pieces fit (I think cuz the fabric is very stretchy), and if I just wanted a very close fitting base layer for sports I would probably go with a SM, but to wear over another mideweight baselayer (i.e. Ibex ribbie, mmmmmmmm), it is perfect, and also for a more professional look with suits it is perfect. I tried their bottoms and their M lightweight bottom fit like my S Ibex bottom, while their S bottom was perfect. So I am hopeful the XS ibex woolie on order will fit like the S smart wool bottom. I did like the weight of the wool a tad better on the ibex than on the smart wool piece. I also like that I can layer my wool blazers over the midweight half zip Ts (with or without another base underneath) and under my goretex shell for professional stuff.

Doesn't this women's sizing stuff drive you crazy??? How can clothes sized 4-8, XS-M, all fit the same body???????????? Guys have it so much easier, they input their waist size and inseam and bingo, whatever they order fits.

Crankin is right though, the ibex hooded shak is a lovely piece, I just think for me I got the wrong size, and the look wasn't what I was going after. But I didn't send it back yet, cuz it may be perfect for my daughter to hike or go around town in chilly boston in, and its her normal size. For me sizing up to layer didn't work, but what I have noticed is that different ibex pieces even that are all the same size, have trimmer vs looser fits, and that is what allows them to be combined in different ways. I aquired my ibex a bit haphazardly, ordered stuff that was on closeout at the end of last season in colors and styles that were appealing. But, I am finding they pair up in ways I hadn't anticipated to really give me the verstaility I am looking for to deal with a range of climates and situations (from mountaintops to no indoor heating to probably overheated interiors.........). I think the only way I'll really figure this out is to take this trip, and see what works when I am in a range of situations.

So, I think I am done shopping. All that's left is to try on what's coming and make the return packages. The worst case scenario is if the woolies XS bottom doesn't fit I'll exchange it for smartwool S bottom.

Thanks again for everyones help and sorry if you are bored to tears reading my naive crazy posts!