WoolWeenies Club

[Triskeliongirl]

Dear Wool Weenies:

As I said above, I am planning a trip at christams time that starts in southern portugal where it will be rainy, but mild temps- 50ish, all the way to Lausanne Switzerland where it will be cold and snowy-20ish.

So, when I was in DC this week I picked up a great deal on an Arc'teryx Beta Goretex Parka (pic attached). It was a 2006 closeout, but still not cheap. What I love about it is the color, it actually has a bit of a tailored fit so looks great, has pit zips and a drop tail, and while its heavier than your typical cycling specific raincoat, I think will do me well as a jacket for a bike tour to wear from down pours to off the bike stuff. Its also amazing just over a light base and shak in san antonio, my usual winter wardrobe (say in the 40s). Every day that I wear it I am soooo glad I bought it, something technical that is figure flattering! When I tried wearing it in DC though I was cold, in part cuz I didn't bring warm enough hats and gloves (just thin ibex liners), and my lower body was cold (no long underwear or even tights).

Do you guys think adding a hooded shak, and perhaps a mideweight rather than lightweight base, woolies long johns, and of course a more substantial hat and gloves and neck gaitor will get me to the 20s or high teens. Are jeans and woolies enough on the bottom, or do I need to wear wool pants too, or cover the jeans with a goretex cycling pant. I am asking about being up and about, not while exercising. To ski, I thought I'd put my shebeest windpro fleecy tight under my goretex cycling pants.

Is double shakking really weird and overkill? Is it as warm as a down sweater with less bulk?

I've always worn insulated coats in this kind of weather, so I wanna know if I should leave my primaloft coat at home, or pack in just in case as it doesn't take up a huge amount of room (North Face Boulevard Jacket). I did wear this coat in DC in the 30s and was comfy, over a shak and base and wool pants.

-A confused girl living in a warm place.

[Cataboo]

Arc'teryx makes gorgeous stuff.

If you've got room to add stuff,

double shakking isn't weird and overkill - I put on 3-4 layers of wool when skiing and then through an arc'teryx shell over it. The ibex long trail sweater gets my vote as the warmest ibex piece. Sometimes I have a fleece over all of that stuff, or something like the icebreaker raven that was just up on sac.

If you look at the ibex climawool pants, I find they're a lot warmer than goretex - a layer of woolies with the alpstars or the backcountry pants is heavenly.

You probably don't need the down sweater or a primaloft sweater.

[Triskeliongirl]

Wow, thanks for the tips Catriona. I bought the jacket in medium so I do have room for layers, up to a point that is. No problem to get 4 merino layers including two shaks. I was tempted buy that stp jacket, but thought the hooded shak would be more versatile. My hooded shak arrives today, and I hope that I LOVE it. So, I think I am OK on top.....

Your advice on the alpstar pant is intriguing. The reviews I read said this would work not just for skiing but for walking around in a cold place (i.e. not look like 'ski pants'). If that's correct that is just the ticket, since the only wool pants I own are dress pants, and I need something for just walking around in switzerland in wintertime, and if I could also ski in them that's a bonus.

But what do you think about the sizing? The online reviews said to size down, but I have pants in my closet from size 4-8 that fit depending on brand, although MOST of my stuff that fits well is a 6, so does that mean I should order a 6 or a 4?. Can you tell me what size you are in the alpstar vs other brands (i have stuff from Ann Taylor Loft, victoria's secret, etc.), or what your actual measurements are, and what size you bought, so I can see how good their size chart is (you can PM me if you don't like to post stuff like that publicly). That's why this internet shopping is sooooooooo hard!

[Cataboo]

Wow, thanks for the tips Catriona. I bought the jacket in medium so I do have room for layers, up to a point that is. No problem to get 4 merino layers including two shaks. I was tempted buy that stp jacket, but thought the hooded shak would be more versatile. My hooded shak arrives today, and I hope that I LOVE it. So, I think I am OK on top.....

Your advice on the alpstar pant is intriguing. The reviews I read said this would work not just for skiing but for walking around in a cold place (i.e. not look like 'ski pants'). If that's correct that is just the ticket, since the only wool pants I own are dress pants, and I need something for just walking around in switzerland in wintertime, and if I could also ski in them that's a bonus.

You could ski in the alp star pants - what they don't have is kickpatches - the thick part that's usually on the inside of your ski pants that prevents them from getting torn up by sharp ski edges. So if you fall a lot or have a tendancy to tear up that part of your pants while skiing, I wouldn't wear them. However, they're going to be not as loose at the bottom as ski pants so they're not going to come all the way down over your boot, so they won't be as likely to get caught as longer ski pants.

I'll have to check tonight what size alpstars I have - I know I've got the ibex backcountry pants in a medium, and they're great. They do have kickpatches, they are windproof.

The alpstars are windproof as well, I'm not sure as much as the backcountry. They do look fairly casual. I know my alpstars are kinda huge because I got them them for cheap on ebay and for that price I didn't really care how well they fit. I'll check their sizing and mine tonight and PM you.

For skiing, it really depends on how much you fall. If you don't fall much, it doesn't matter that both of the pants aren't going to be fully waterproof - they will shed moisture and resist getting wet.

The thing that's extremely nice about the icebreaker raven & allstar is that the weave/fabric is so tight that they are windproof. I can use them as an outer layer on a windy day. That also makes them extremely warm. I love the hooded shak, but it's not as windproof as they are.

[Triskeliongirl]

OK, so it sounds like I am good for top layers. I do not care about windproofness of my mid layers since my goretex jacket is windproof (and was told that windproof mid layers won't breathe well).

What I am still a little unclear on is what to wear on the bottom if its in the 20s. Not for skiing, but for just walking around a city, are you guys saying I would be cold with woolies under jeans. What about if I put a goretex cycling pant over that, or woolies, windpro tight, and a goretex cycling pant? It sounds like you are recommending the ibex climawool pants just for walking around, right, or are they primarially for skiing. Will I then overheat if I go inside?

Fortunately both my goretex pant and windpro tight are roomy enough to layer under (especially the goretex pant, which is really a size too big if I just wear it over cycling tights so I can put it over jeans, but is that super-dorky?).

[Cataboo]

Since we're not you, it's hard to tell you definitely what you need to bring and not. You'll probably be fine in jeans with woolies - have a heavier layer with you in case you aren't.

You can use the alpstars for walking around in - they're casual enough looking. You could also use them for skiing.

I've got a couple pairs of the prana fleece lined pants, that I absolutely love and they're kind of my cold weather walking around in pants. It's more of a flannel lining than fleece
http://gearattack.com/items/9843

Bottom layers - truthfully, while I have wool bottom layers, they really just don't tend to be as warm as just putting on some polartec powerstrech and I really don't use them as much. I don't like layering multiple bottom layers for skiing. It constricts movement a bit too much.
http://www.backcountry.com/store/ARC...503&mv_pc=r126

The arc'teryx rho ar bottoms are extremely warm. The cloudveil run don't walk bottoms as well:
http://search.backcountry.com/exec/?...t+walk&x=0&y=0

I've got a pair of run don't walk boxers, that layers with some power stretch tights with an outer goretex layer and I'm usually good for down hill skiing.


I wouldn't use woolies on their own under goretex, because I wouldn't find that warm enough. I do have one pair of ibex tights that are fairly thick - they're the weight of the loose tights & unzip at the bottom, I think they're the energy tights:
http://www.ibexwear.com/shop/Product...t=Energy-Tight

That's my warmest wool bottom.

Polartec powerstretch dries quickly if washed in a sink or whatever.

[Jolt]

I just got two good deals on Ebay--a blue Icebreaker tank top and a set of three pairs Fox River merino hiking socks (organic merino, to boot). It all arrived today and I am quite happy with all of it! So don't forget to check out Ebay if you know the kinds of things you're looking for...

[Cataboo]

While I'm committing blasphemy in the wool weenies forum - another incredibly warm bottom (not wool) is the arc'teryx tau pants.
http://www.amazon.com/Arcteryx-Tau-P.../dp/B000AMPXVE

They've got a pullover zipneck shirt as well.

Their gamma mx pants are another pair of softshell pants you might want to look into if you're not interested in the ibex backcountry or alpstar

[Crankin]

Elaine, I don't see why you wouldn't be warm enough walking around with a nice wool layer (tights or long underwear) and whatever pants you want...
What did you wear on the bottom when you were here last January? I don't think you would need anything more than that! You had a lot of layers on. People generally don't wear layers on the bottom, here, unless they are going out to do some serious walking; like when I went to work, I just wore my pants or skirt and whatever tights or socks I would normally wear, since you are not normally outside. Outdoor sports in the cold are another thing, but I have never needed more than mid weight silk long underwear and my Ibex pants, even at -10 F. when skiing or hiking.
Today I had to go to Cambridge for a meeting; it is about 30 but feels like 15. I was cold waiting for the train in just my jeans, but if I had had a nice wool layer under them, it would have been fine. You don't want to be too sweaty!
Robyn

[Triskeliongirl]

Wow, keep the tips coming. When I visited Crankin in Boston, I wore a goretex pant over my jeans, and was OK but felt really dorky. I then proceeded to buy a primaloft coat and tall boots which worked fine in Boston over jeans and ibex on top, but I think it was only in the 30s.

But, now I am looking for travel clothes to take me from southern portugal to switzerland with the smallest number of pieces that can be combined in lots of different ways. And I think Switzerland will be colder than Boston was, and I will want to ski. I guess this is getting mixed up cuz its not always clear which responses are good for just walking around vs skiing, and I guess I am looking for clothes that in different combinations will work for both. So, its sounding like if I want to add one more piece the alpstar pant will do it, I just need some sizing help on it from anyone that owns it (do your actual body measurements match the size you ordered?).

But Catriona gave me another idea. The shebeest windpro tight is lined with powerfleece. I have one pair of wool pants that are a size too big, so if its really cold in switzerland I could put the tight on under the pants, and if its less cold pair them with the woolies for walking around.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Do you guys think adding a hooded shak, and perhaps a mideweight rather than lightweight base, woolies long johns, and of course a more substantial hat and gloves and neck gaitor will get me to the 20s or high teens.

YES.

Are jeans and woolies enough on the bottom

No.

Is double shakking really weird and overkill? Is it as warm as a down sweater with less bulk?

No. Yes.

I've always worn insulated coats in this kind of weather, so I wanna know if I should leave my primaloft coat at home, or pack in just in case as it doesn't take up a huge amount of room (North Face Boulevard Jacket). I did wear this coat in DC in the 30s and was comfy, over a shak and base and wool pants.

Just bring your new parka and all your merino layers. Jeans are not going to be your friend in the cold, so wear a two layer combo of warm tights or ski-type pants instead. If you can squeeze a thin merino base layer tight under your SheBeest WindPro tight (I have this and it's WARM!)- that would be PLENTY warm for anything down to zero degrees. Or a merino base layer tight under some ski type pant or wind resisitant Ibex pant.

[Biciclista]

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!