Please share: Relationships, Engagement and Marriage

[Blueberry]

I don't think you came off as gloating. Certainly sounds like it would have benefited her to listen to you as you were going through that situation. I have every sympathy for the child - but the friend who knowingly put herself in that situation - I have a hard time.

CA

[Irulan]

How can this be applied to the OP's request for wisdom, the good and the bad, help in understanding relationships...

I'm of the mind to comment that when relationships go bad (and I've been there, as close to divorce as you can get and not actually be there) it's never just one person's fault. It's always easy to point a finger and blame, but it's rarely the actions of just one person that makes a relationship go bad. The choices that build up to bad situations may not always be obvious, and we may not even be aware of them as they may be part of our internal baggage that we all have.

The best thing that ever happened to DH and me was a very good marriage counselor, a no nonsense type who got us both to pull our heads out of our asses and quit finger pointing, and to look at ourselves: both of us. It was really really tough as it is so much easier to blame everything that goes wrong on the other person.

I feel blessed to this day that underneath it all we both wanted to fix it, and were willing to do whatever it took - I know that is not always the case, and that some things aren't fixable. It was very very tough. I think plenty of folks would have bailed and not stuck it out, and maybe even repeated the same mistakes that got them into the place they were at becuase they didn't get at the root of it. And Ladies, I'm talking some messy, ugly stuff. I'll spare you the details. But we did it, we stuck it out and rebuilt, and I have a marriage I only could have dreamed of 10 years ago.

i.

[Meaux]

I met my husband when I was 21 and he was 18. We worked together at Barnes and Noble. We started dating a few months later. I had just gotten out of a very intense, but short, relationship and was not at all interested in dating anyone. We have been together for seven years, and have been married for three. He has supported me through finishing college, my father's death, and making the agonizing decision to go back to school and change my career. He is truly my partner and my best friend. I can't say that our marriage is easy, but I will say that because we work at it, it is a lot sweeter. I truly believe that love comes in the strangest places when you are not looking for it.

[michelem]

Irulan,

Thanks so much for sharing. What words of wisdom! And what an inspiration to us all.

[Irulan]

Irulan,

Thanks so much for sharing. What words of wisdom! And what an inspiration to us all.

well thank you but it's only MY experience. There's a lot of different experience out there- a whole range of them. And everyone has different approaches, attitudes and awarenesses ( or not) that affect what their relationship experiences will be. This thread is a great example of the range of things people go through.

[michelem]

Irulan,

So true, but I relate to yours the most!

[smilingcat]

I wish I could have read this about 25 years ago... Wonderful advice and thoughts.

Well my ex- didn't respect me nor the marriage. didn't show up at appointments with counselors. Even changed counselors because my ex felt that the counselor was siding with me! and wasn't being impartial. did a no show on more than half the time. When my ex did show it was for the last 5 minuts of the appointment. It was awkward just sitting at the marriage counselors office like that. I always ended up apologizing for wasting their time.

I thanked my couselors for at least trying and they wished me well. The divorce was very much acrimonious, long and drawn out. I ended up having to pay alimony to my ex. for just over 3 years.

-------------------
Yes it has lot to do with respecting each other, respecting each others needs and desires. It's about working together.

When I was going through my protracted divorce, I met a woman who was going through her crazy divorce. We shared stories and became best of friends. We cried and laughed together and we supported each other in those difficult emotional times. And now she shares my house with me and she is my partner. We are the best of buds. Sometimes we disagree but I really value her for being her. She makes me laugh, she keeps me grounded. I can't make her laugh as much but I'm almost always there for her when she needs a friend.

We've been best of friends for past 17 years and I don't think either of us had to raise our voices at each other. We laugh together at my expense. And we overlook each others fault. I know I have mine and I have a pretty big skelton closet. She has hers too. But we do our best to ignore them. My partner is more of the artist type, very creative and I'm always awed by what she creates. My upbringing was "warm" in some respect in other respect it was harsh. My father has an MD degree with Phd in biochem. And I think he was a Rhode scholar? My mother doesn't say much. I being the eldest was expected to get both. So I tend to be bit more self critical and analytical. This is one of many faults I have. And because of all the faults we each have, we overlook it. Like the saying, "don't throw rocks in a glass house"

Its about give a lot take a little. I'm really happy to have my best friend and we share our lives together. We don't consider ourselves lesbians not that its bad or good. We just don't think we fit that mold. We are best of friends, a family (bit odd perhaps)...

smilingcat

[deedolce]

Wow. What an incredible thread. By far my favorite out of many forums I frequent! I, too, wish I had read a thread like this 20+ years ago...

I grew up in a very uptight household. Never dated in high school, dated very little in college - and then I walked into an art class, and saw this tall, blue eyed graduate student. Wavy brown hair - broad shoulders, and a road cyclist. My professor was ailing, so he took over the class. The day after class was out, I went to pick up my piece from the gallery. He was just walking out the other door. I called out. We talked, and then I asked him out. I found out later, he had been waiting for me to show up, to ask me out. I beat him to the punch. 1 month later, he had moved in to my apartment. 3 months later, we eloped. I was 23, he 24. He kept telling me how he wanted to teach, and I envisioned a life as a professor's wife in a college town.

After we finished school, he with his MFA, mine a BS, we moved to the city. He felt he had to show his work, before he could feel right teaching. So we worked, he did a couple of shows, never really sold his work, and got frustrated, working for a living, and not living off his art. 5 years later we had a son. 2 years later a daughter. I was always the 'easy going' one in my family, the middle child. So we did what he wanted to do, lived pursuing his dreams. It was hard. Little money, a frustrated artist. We never really fought: we also never talked about fears/hopes/dreams. So when he was away on a job - he started an affair. My newborn daughter was maybe 5 months old. I remember the day he walked in the room, and he was wrought: and he told me he was in love with someone else. I felt like someone had punched through my chest, and removed my heart. He told me he felt he was dead inside, with two young children, and his dreams going nowhere. All he did was work, day after day. He would always say to himself or me that all he had to do was '...pull himself up by the bootstraps.' But he never talked to me, and I didn't ask, overwhelmed myself with a newborn and a toddler. He said he still loved me too, and we didn't have to divorce if I didn't want to.

I asked him to consider counseling. He said okay, if it would help me deal with it. I think it woke up a part of me that had laid dormant for awhile.
To h3ll with that!! I filed for divorce. He left with a truckload of tools and the dog. I moved back to my mother's with a 2 year old and a 7 month old infant.

I stayed single for 12 years after that. I stayed a couple of years with my mother, then moved out because I was afraid of getting too dependent (my mom insisted on paying for everything, and helped watch my kids) so I moved an hour away, and through the years, went back to school in the evenings, got my credential, got a job, bought a house, raised my kids.

Then at work, there was a younger co-worker that was going through all kinds of drama. He seemed sweet, and cute, and he was suffering through an unfaithful wife that was moving out of state with her boyfriend, leaving him with 2 young kids. By then, my youngest was a 6th grader. I was missing male companionship keenly. So...we became fwb. I thought I could. I had my friends, my career, my home, I already had kids who spent every other weekend with their Dad. My fwb was 10 years younger, and he was a passionate lover, he was clearly bad 'relationship' material for a number of reasons, from being a 'drama junkie', bankrupt, pot smoker, etc...and I ended up learning a big lesson about myself. I can't be intimate and not get sucked in emotionally. Yep, I fell 'in love' with my young fwb. After I let slip those fateful words, he broke it off with me. I was heartbroken. To rub salt in the wound, within two weeks he was dating, and then married wife #2. Did I mention we were co-workers? And he was a drama junkie? He took every opportunity to parade her her in front of me at functions, practically mauling her, that even other coworkers were offended! I stayed single for MORE years after that!

But I was still lonely. Felt something was missing. So I decided to try the online dating scene. Lots of first dates with 'interesting' men. Some damaged and single for a reason. Others with a check off list and pretty full of themselves and their search. Others misrepresenting themselves, others with just no sparks but nice guys. I'd often need 'dating breaks' from the madness! But for some reason, I felt the need to keep looking, although I had everything else to be absolutely happy and content, I felt my life was incomplete.

Then, NOT on a dating forum, but another cycling forum, I had posted about some of my internet dating experiences in response to a thread and this cyclist responded. It was flirty, but respectful too. Heck, I flirted back. After a couple days of this, it moved to pms. Then gee, instead of throwing his bike in his truck to find roads to ride during Memorial weekend, why not spend gas money on a plane ticket, and fly out to ride with me and meet? Sure, why not? He flew out.

Of course, after many years of self imposed hermitage, and online 'first meets' that mostly went nowhere, I was good at keeping men at a distance. With him, all those defenses were GONE. Fate, or some intuitve inner aspect of myself, softened my heart to this guy. He wasn't my taste at all as far as looks. But there was this overpowering feeling of comfort and closeness. I tend to be scattered and ungrounded. He was like a rock of security. The best feeling in the world was to lay my head on his chest, and feel his arms wrap around me...

It's been 5 months of a long distance relationship, now. He's been a victim of the economy, and changing careers. Again, I'm 10 years older, and feel a little overly self-concious of my many laugh lines and approaching menopause, and the changes that'll bring as far as our currently amazing physical relationship...
but the BIGGEST draw about him is his ability to communicate with me. The thing that was completely missing from my marriage. He's much more experienced in what it takes for a healthy relationship, always keeping things in perspective and seeing us as a 'team' in our relationship and working towards 'for the rest of our lives'.

One thing I know for sure, that niggling feeling that my life wasn't quite complete is GONE. With him, I'm home.