Compact vs Triple

[Aggie_Ama]

Wow, thanks Melissa. Great food for thought.
I realize I gave the wrong specs for the existing cassette. It's 11-25 on the compact, not 12-27. I can see how a MTB cassette could make a huge difference. Do you think even a 12-27 would make a difference? (Might be able to convince the LBS to make that change for free...)

I live in Central Texas, somewhat hilly but not mountains. I wasn't ready to chunk my Ultegra Deraileur on my bike so I swapped 12-25 to 12-27. My LBS is one that does not like the SRAM 28 they said it works okay but they don't advocate it themselves. "Works okay" doesn't work for me. It is a noticeable change with the 12-27 but not enough if you aren't a mountain goat. I will eventually put a XT or XTR with a mountain cassette. It is overkill for my area but I like to go out to the extreme TX Hill Country and even on vacation to the mountains as often as I can. I can't climb and am a bit too unmotivated for hill repeats. I just like to ride for the joy of it not much on training. I also ride a triple. I like puppy gears, I don't ever in my wildest dreams see myself becoming a strong climber.

[alpinerabbit]

I ride the swiss alps on a compact / 11-27 Ultegra. I'm fine. I'll struggle with 15-20% slopes but 8-12% is peachy.

[madscot13]

I never thought I would become a strong climber. So I have a triple and a mountain cassette (I think I have an 11-34, but next time I would choose a set with closer gears). I used to do this one will on my granny gear and just spin my legs off. I am better now and I can stay in my middle gear and keep my cadence going. I still get passed but more importantly I still pass some.

it took a lot of training to get to the point that I am at now. I also haul groceries some times and the extended gear ratio is nice then.

[Misandal]

TBird, my two cents: I started out with a triple and rode it for three years, then bought a bike that had a compact double and rode it for a year. When I traded it for my new Madone this spring (which came with a compact double), I asked my mechanic to put a triple on it. It didn't cost me any more and it's full Ultegra.

The compact had low enough gearing for the climbing that I do, but I missed all the in-between gears that you get with a triple. I felt like I was always in a gear that was either too easy or too hard, I could never find that happy in-between. I'm back on a triple and I'm much happier with it.

[madscot13]

I spend most of my time in my 39. With my wide cassette I don't really shift so much. (Maybe I should be?) I always wonder what being in a 34-36 would do to me.

[TBird]

This is so helpful everyone, thanks. I love the idea of customizing once I've spent some time in the saddle, but lots of swapping out of the gates feels a bit overwhelming. Seems like I'll know more about what I want after a couple hundred road miles.

Misandal, I was surprised (and psyched!) to hear that your LBS swapped out a compact for a triple for free. Do you know if they had a triple in stock, or did they really do the labor of disassembling and reassembling? I'm not sure my shop would be so accommodating. But it never hurts to ask...

[Misandal]

No, they didn't have it in stock - they ordered the bike for me and then had to do the swapping once it arrived. I didn't inquire what the price of the bike would be had I taken it with the compact, but I paid what typical retail price on that bike was and I got it with a triple, so my perception of the deal is that it didn't cost me any more to get it the way I wanted it.

[Aggie_Ama]

When I bought my bike in December 2006 (Cannondale Synapse 3 which at the time was the lowest end gruppo on the carbon) it was offered with a triple or compact double. I believe the Synapse 2 (Full Ultegra mine is 105/Ultegra rear) was also offered double or triple. Only the highest end Dura Ace was only double.

So it may be simply ordering the crank to switch since the bike is offered that way? Even if they are not in stock to be shipped that way I would think the LBS would have no problem doing it if it meant they sold that caliber of bike. I would think (and I don't know) the bike shop could just stock the double as a replacement/upgrade for someone?

[aicabsolut]

I ride the swiss alps on a compact / 11-27 Ultegra. I'm fine. I'll struggle with 15-20% slopes but 8-12% is peachy.

I ride a compact (50/36) with a 12-27 cassette. That is equivalent to a 50/34 with a 12-25. I struggle in the mountains only when the grades get upwards of 15% as well. Over 20% is really really tough. However, long sustained climbs from anywhere in the 6-12% range is doable. I'm thinking of taking my old frame and putting a 50/34 on it (using my same cassette) to get just one more gear for riding the mountains.

My compact is perfect for my usual terrain and racing. I run out of gears on the top end more often than on the low end. If I lived in the mountains, I might prefer a triple, but I think even then I'd be more inclined to just put more gears on the back--like maybe a 50/34 with a SRAM or DA7900 cassette with a 28 cog. It's not that much of a difference in gear inches, but my current gearing is *almost* enough for steep grades.

[xeney]

I agree with xeney, but only if the triple actually gives you a lower gear then a compact set, or 'normal' double.

Okay, good point, and I should have said that if she knew on the test ride that she wanted lower gears, she should be sure to get those lower gears before she buys the bike. Whether that means a triple or something else.

[OakLeaf]

I wonder if distance makes a difference, too. And whether you're riding with others. For a short ride, maybe you can "live with" an uncomfortable cadence; if you're alone, maybe you can maintain your preferred cadence but not ride your first choice of pace. But if you're going to be out for hours - or if you're trying to stay with other riders - you don't have that luxury.

With a compact, yes you can get some pretty low gears, but you're going to be losing gears in the very range that you ride the most. That's not just an issue for racers. IMO it's just as important for less strong riders. I wonder if the preponderance of strong but casual riders on this board is the reason there seems to be so much preference for compacts.

Also, if you're running out of high gears, that means you're not going to have as much momentum on descents to propel you up the next hill.

Of the two groups I ride with, in the stronger and faster group (B/A-) about half of them run triples; in the slower group (C+/B+) ALL of them do. The slower group is mostly composed of people who ride 7-10,000 miles a year, just at a slower pace.

As has also been pointed out when the topic has come up before, it depends on how much you plan to haul, too. If you're commuting or touring, your needs are very much different from a day rider's.

[aicabsolut]

I wonder if distance makes a difference, too. And whether you're riding with others. For a short ride, maybe you can "live with" an uncomfortable cadence; if you're alone, maybe you can maintain your preferred cadence but not ride your first choice of pace. But if you're going to be out for hours - or if you're trying to stay with other riders - you don't have that luxury.

With a compact, yes you can get some pretty low gears, but you're going to be losing gears in the very range that you ride the most. That's not just an issue for racers. IMO it's just as important for less strong riders. I wonder if the preponderance of strong but casual riders on this board is the reason there seems to be so much preference for compacts.

Also, if you're running out of high gears, that means you're not going to have as much momentum on descents to propel you up the next hill.

That's not necessarily true. Even in races, I rarely run out of gears on either end. Therefore, the range of gears that I need the most is precisely what I have on my compact.

The 50/12 is plenty of gear for me for sprinting, unless there's a major tailwind or downhill sprint. Most of the sprints in my races tend to be uphill, and there, it's my legs holding me back and not my gearing. My cassette is a bit spaced out, but I don't have a big problem finding the right cruising gear. It can get more challenging in a TT, and sometimes it can be hard to draft off of someone with vastly different gearing at the low end of the cassette (where the jumps between cogs is greater for me).

As for descending, I can hit over 40mph on descents where I've outspun my hardest gear. That's fast enough for me. Depending on what's next, that momentum may not do that much for the next climb. It certainly won't help in mountain regions where you have really long climbs and really long descents. It only helps on rolling terrain where you are constantly going up and down. There, usually the descents aren't enough that I'm really wishing I had a 53 up front. In fact, I like being able to pop over some rollers in the 50 and not having to shift so much.

I don't have any problems staying with a group or riding for 4+ hours in the mountains because of my compact. If I can't keep up, then a triple isn't really going to help me much. I'd be able to spin a little faster, but I'm still not keeping up with the boys running standard cranksets. My compact only *possibly* holds me back on the flats when I'm getting dropped at 30+mph, but really, would i be able to sustain that speed with harder gears for any longer? Doubtful.

I don't think that distance makes much of a difference or being a strong casual rider (whatever that means) versus a strong serious rider or a racer or whatever. Instead, crankset preferences seem to have a lot to do with riding style, strength, terrain, joint health, and similar factors. For example, if I'd be hitting those 20% grades regularly, I'd want a triple to 1) keep my knees happier, and 2) reduce the chance that I'd have to get off and walk because of #1 or when my fitness lags. Overall, the compact works just fine for me.

Also, based on your group ride examples, it seems like a triple is needed because of your terrain. As a counter example, I ride with one faster group back home and I'm probably the only one with a compact (everyone else has standard gearing and itty bitty cassettes)--because it is FLAT. How long you ride or how strong you are and what your preferred cadence is relative to your strength is only part of the equation.

[lunacycles]

Switching a bike like the Madone to a triple with mountain bike-like gearing in the rear (anything lower than 27t, usually) will not only necessitate a new cassette, but also new brifters (and sometimes new derailleurs). MTB cassettes (11-32, 11-34) are 9 speed and the Madone is set up for a road 10-speed, hence necessitating different shifters if you make that switch--in order to shift properly.

So it is a major deal, labor and parts wise, to make the change (basically a new drivetrain), and don't be surprised if the LBS has to charge you something additional to the bike price to secure both the sale and any kind of profit. That being said, if you really want the low gear options, the time to decide that is when you are purchasing the bike as the shop will be most willing to do what is necessary at minimal extra charge in order to get the sale.

If set up properly, a triple crank shifts as well as a compact (often better, imo), and adds more options at minimal weight penalty.

Margo

[madscot13]

I ride a compact (50/36) with a 12-27 cassette. That is equivalent to a 50/34 with a 12-25. I struggle in the mountains only when the grades get upwards of 15% as well. Over 20% is really really tough. However, long sustained climbs from anywhere in the 6-12% range is doable. I'm thinking of taking my old frame and putting a 50/34 on it (using my same cassette) to get just one more gear for riding the mountains.

My compact is perfect for my usual terrain and racing. I run out of gears on the top end more often than on the low end. If I lived in the mountains, I might prefer a triple, but I think even then I'd be more inclined to just put more gears on the back--like maybe a 50/34 with a SRAM or DA7900 cassette with a 28 cog. It's not that much of a difference in gear inches, but my current gearing is *almost* enough for steep grades.

where do you go for local mountains? I'm not too bad with the hills around here, but I would like to get better on steeper climbs for the spring.

[tulip]

where do you go for local mountains? I'm not too bad with the hills around here, but I would like to get better on steeper climbs for the spring.

Are you in MN or DC? If you're in DC, go west to the Shenandoah, Blue Ridge Parkway, Harrisonburg. Skyline Drive from Front Royal to Big Meadows is a great ride--stay over night at the Lodge and come back "down" (almost as much climbing as "up" the next day. Of course, you will need access to a car to get there. I drove there, stayed overnight at the Super8 in Front Royal, rode up, stayed at the lodge, rode down, and drove home. I have a compact double and I was fine. In fact, too much empty spinning gives me knee pain so I'm better off pushing a bit.

You can also find some decent climbing around Purceville in Maryland. Or up towards Gettysburg, PA. Lots of options, but a car is necessary to get there.