Compact vs Triple

[melissam]

Hi TBird,

I can't help you with the compact vs. triple question, as I've never ridden a compact double. I'm currently getting a custom crankset made, and the guy who makes it is trying to convince me to go with a compact double. He says the shifting is much more precise than with a triple.

At one point, I considered switching a bike with a standard double to a triple. It was a slippery slope of equipment changes: new crankset, new front derailleur, new shifter. I ended up buying a bike with a triple.

As far as changing your cassette goes, I'm heartily in favor of it! I switched the road cassette to an 11-34 cassette, with a mountain bike rear derailleur, and a new chain. I picked up a new SRAM 9-speed cassette & chain on eBay for ~$40, and an XT derailleur for under $50. If you went with your compact double and an 11-34, this would give you a low gear of 34-34, vs. a 30-27 if you went with a triple and kept your current cassette.

The disadvantages of a mountain cassette is that your gears are wider apart. Sometimes on the flats, you might find that you either have to spin faster than you would like or mash harder than you'd like. (I rarely notice this and find that having the low gears is well worth it!)

I also wonder if you could switch the chainrings on your compact double. Think limbo: how low could it go? If you could get a 24 on there, that'd be a 24-27 low gear. Hmmmm..... Of course, your big ring would probably be a 40, so your high gear would be a 40-12, which might be to low for descents or flatland cruising.

Anyway, plenty to think about. And you were probably hoping for a simple answer.

[TBird]

Wow, thanks Melissa. Great food for thought.
I realize I gave the wrong specs for the existing cassette. It's 11-25 on the compact, not 12-27. I can see how a MTB cassette could make a huge difference. Do you think even a 12-27 would make a difference? (Might be able to convince the LBS to make that change for free...)

[melissam]

TBird,

I honestly don't think that a 34-27 will make a huge difference on hills vs. a 34-25. According to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator, a 34-25 will give you 35.7 gear inches, and 34-27 will give you 33.1 gear inches, assuming 700c wheels. Helpful, but not a huge difference on the hills.

Please keep in mind that this comes from someone who not only has a mountain cassette, but also a triple! I have to say that having my 30-34 available gives me great peace of mind on many a ride. I might not use it, but it's very reassuring to know that it's there.

One more thing: I rode with someone who had a mountain cassette with a 32 in the back, and he was able to use his Ultegra rear derailleur. You would just want to be careful and avoid shifting into the 32 while you're in your big ring. It's not something I'd do on purpose, but I can't guarantee that I wouldn't have a very blonde moment at some point during a long & strenuous ride.

- Melissa

[Aggie_Ama]

Wow, thanks Melissa. Great food for thought.
I realize I gave the wrong specs for the existing cassette. It's 11-25 on the compact, not 12-27. I can see how a MTB cassette could make a huge difference. Do you think even a 12-27 would make a difference? (Might be able to convince the LBS to make that change for free...)

I live in Central Texas, somewhat hilly but not mountains. I wasn't ready to chunk my Ultegra Deraileur on my bike so I swapped 12-25 to 12-27. My LBS is one that does not like the SRAM 28 they said it works okay but they don't advocate it themselves. "Works okay" doesn't work for me. It is a noticeable change with the 12-27 but not enough if you aren't a mountain goat. I will eventually put a XT or XTR with a mountain cassette. It is overkill for my area but I like to go out to the extreme TX Hill Country and even on vacation to the mountains as often as I can. I can't climb and am a bit too unmotivated for hill repeats. I just like to ride for the joy of it not much on training. I also ride a triple. I like puppy gears, I don't ever in my wildest dreams see myself becoming a strong climber.

[alpinerabbit]

I ride the swiss alps on a compact / 11-27 Ultegra. I'm fine. I'll struggle with 15-20% slopes but 8-12% is peachy.

[madscot13]

I never thought I would become a strong climber. So I have a triple and a mountain cassette (I think I have an 11-34, but next time I would choose a set with closer gears). I used to do this one will on my granny gear and just spin my legs off. I am better now and I can stay in my middle gear and keep my cadence going. I still get passed but more importantly I still pass some.

it took a lot of training to get to the point that I am at now. I also haul groceries some times and the extended gear ratio is nice then.

[Misandal]

TBird, my two cents: I started out with a triple and rode it for three years, then bought a bike that had a compact double and rode it for a year. When I traded it for my new Madone this spring (which came with a compact double), I asked my mechanic to put a triple on it. It didn't cost me any more and it's full Ultegra.

The compact had low enough gearing for the climbing that I do, but I missed all the in-between gears that you get with a triple. I felt like I was always in a gear that was either too easy or too hard, I could never find that happy in-between. I'm back on a triple and I'm much happier with it.

[madscot13]

I spend most of my time in my 39. With my wide cassette I don't really shift so much. (Maybe I should be?) I always wonder what being in a 34-36 would do to me.

[TBird]

This is so helpful everyone, thanks. I love the idea of customizing once I've spent some time in the saddle, but lots of swapping out of the gates feels a bit overwhelming. Seems like I'll know more about what I want after a couple hundred road miles.

Misandal, I was surprised (and psyched!) to hear that your LBS swapped out a compact for a triple for free. Do you know if they had a triple in stock, or did they really do the labor of disassembling and reassembling? I'm not sure my shop would be so accommodating. But it never hurts to ask...

[aicabsolut]

I ride the swiss alps on a compact / 11-27 Ultegra. I'm fine. I'll struggle with 15-20% slopes but 8-12% is peachy.

I ride a compact (50/36) with a 12-27 cassette. That is equivalent to a 50/34 with a 12-25. I struggle in the mountains only when the grades get upwards of 15% as well. Over 20% is really really tough. However, long sustained climbs from anywhere in the 6-12% range is doable. I'm thinking of taking my old frame and putting a 50/34 on it (using my same cassette) to get just one more gear for riding the mountains.

My compact is perfect for my usual terrain and racing. I run out of gears on the top end more often than on the low end. If I lived in the mountains, I might prefer a triple, but I think even then I'd be more inclined to just put more gears on the back--like maybe a 50/34 with a SRAM or DA7900 cassette with a 28 cog. It's not that much of a difference in gear inches, but my current gearing is *almost* enough for steep grades.

[xeney]

I agree with xeney, but only if the triple actually gives you a lower gear then a compact set, or 'normal' double.

Okay, good point, and I should have said that if she knew on the test ride that she wanted lower gears, she should be sure to get those lower gears before she buys the bike. Whether that means a triple or something else.

[OakLeaf]

I wonder if distance makes a difference, too. And whether you're riding with others. For a short ride, maybe you can "live with" an uncomfortable cadence; if you're alone, maybe you can maintain your preferred cadence but not ride your first choice of pace. But if you're going to be out for hours - or if you're trying to stay with other riders - you don't have that luxury.

With a compact, yes you can get some pretty low gears, but you're going to be losing gears in the very range that you ride the most. That's not just an issue for racers. IMO it's just as important for less strong riders. I wonder if the preponderance of strong but casual riders on this board is the reason there seems to be so much preference for compacts.

Also, if you're running out of high gears, that means you're not going to have as much momentum on descents to propel you up the next hill.

Of the two groups I ride with, in the stronger and faster group (B/A-) about half of them run triples; in the slower group (C+/B+) ALL of them do. The slower group is mostly composed of people who ride 7-10,000 miles a year, just at a slower pace.

As has also been pointed out when the topic has come up before, it depends on how much you plan to haul, too. If you're commuting or touring, your needs are very much different from a day rider's.

[madscot13]

I ride a compact (50/36) with a 12-27 cassette. That is equivalent to a 50/34 with a 12-25. I struggle in the mountains only when the grades get upwards of 15% as well. Over 20% is really really tough. However, long sustained climbs from anywhere in the 6-12% range is doable. I'm thinking of taking my old frame and putting a 50/34 on it (using my same cassette) to get just one more gear for riding the mountains.

My compact is perfect for my usual terrain and racing. I run out of gears on the top end more often than on the low end. If I lived in the mountains, I might prefer a triple, but I think even then I'd be more inclined to just put more gears on the back--like maybe a 50/34 with a SRAM or DA7900 cassette with a 28 cog. It's not that much of a difference in gear inches, but my current gearing is *almost* enough for steep grades.

where do you go for local mountains? I'm not too bad with the hills around here, but I would like to get better on steeper climbs for the spring.

[tulip]

where do you go for local mountains? I'm not too bad with the hills around here, but I would like to get better on steeper climbs for the spring.

Are you in MN or DC? If you're in DC, go west to the Shenandoah, Blue Ridge Parkway, Harrisonburg. Skyline Drive from Front Royal to Big Meadows is a great ride--stay over night at the Lodge and come back "down" (almost as much climbing as "up" the next day. Of course, you will need access to a car to get there. I drove there, stayed overnight at the Super8 in Front Royal, rode up, stayed at the lodge, rode down, and drove home. I have a compact double and I was fine. In fact, too much empty spinning gives me knee pain so I'm better off pushing a bit.

You can also find some decent climbing around Purceville in Maryland. Or up towards Gettysburg, PA. Lots of options, but a car is necessary to get there.

[aicabsolut]

where do you go for local mountains? I'm not too bad with the hills around here, but I would like to get better on steeper climbs for the spring.

I go to the Charlottesville area and near Staunton for more hills, but I haven't done the mountain climbs there (such as the climb up to Skyline--once you're on Skyline Drive it's about as rolling as anywhere else in the area).

I go to West Virginia just on the other side of the Valley for the closest mountain climbs. Those are pretty challenging--they don't start throwing in switchbacks until the climbs get REALLY steep. Otherwise, it's just long, mostly straight shots up. That makes descending more fun too (tight, steep, narrow road switchbacks coming down are almost as bad as going up).

check out this place: www.lostriverbarn.com
They're about booked up for the good dates this spring already. The barn is situated at the top of a 2,000ft high mountain. The only way to get home from any side is pretty much straight up for 5-7 miles.