I've heard these problems in most clubs I've been in or around. There's a Darwinian logic to it. People who get dropped don't come back, so only the strong survive and perpetuate the problem.

There is a huge hormonal (tho' I'm speaking more adrenaline than, say, testosterone) aspect. The very same people who gripe about being dropped will not recognize when they drop people. People will *swear* that it really, honestly, I-really-mean-it-this-time-honey be an easy ride... until the hormones take over and they're cranking out the mphs. Most of the time they don't apologize afterward though - they'll somehow believe that no, they really weren't going that fast.

Doesn't take long before people know that the "no drop" phrase is usually a lie, so even *fewer* turtles come out of their shells. Clubs are just for hammers.

And you don't have to drop 'em to have 'em not come back. I've seen rides where the fast people tried to be nice and backed off to a pace the newer riders could keep up with ... *barely.* As in, it wasn't a good time (and it doesn't help to realize that you're coughing up a lung and the guys around you haven't broken a sweat). So, when I'm leading a slower ride, I show up on my 45 pound single speed, and I try to take it down that extra 5% and, yes, ***stop and rest*** on occasion. A couple of rides like that and the people who have to hammer stop coming. Sort of reverse dropping :-) (I announce the "regroup" spot at the beginning.)

Of course it takes a while to build credibility, and this gets confounded by the fact that if nobody believes the ride will go slow, then only fast (though they don't believe it) people will come , and you don't want to go slow when there's nobody there to go slow for, so you go fast and then it's not a slower ride any more.

My theory is that you can't slow down a pace by simply DECLARING THAT THIS WILL BE A SLOW RIDE. SOmetimes you *can* win with reverse psychology - "I know most of you will go faster. We'd appreciate it if some of you kept to the advertised pace, but I understand if you can't do that." Then there's old-fashioned guilt -- "remember where you came from, folks - you were new once!"

Sometimes it really is a personal perception thing - people simply can't believe that lil' ol' them is fast.

When I joined our club, we had a moderate it's-only-for-hammers issue (and a major credibility problem with that "nobody will be dropped" line). Fortunately about five other people came out around the same time, and we realized taht if we came out together, we'd have people to ride with. There's a "critical mass" aspect - now there are enough riders out there so there *is* a real "B" group. You have to talk about it though, and keep educating people who don't realize they've gotten so much faster that now they're the dropper, not the droppee.