Road handlebar angst

[elk]

interesting...i was operating under the impression that the saddle should be level with the bars or a little bit lower for more comfort....your eye sees the opposite problem!

I do have different bars on now...it was a small hands issue...and the ergo bend on the ritcheys (in te photo above) made it near impossible to reach the brakes in the drops. So I got something close in size but not ergo....ergo () the Cinelli Little Wing that's on there now. http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...1&category=636

I'm not sure it was the best choice, only because the bar seems cramped and narrow in comparison...which could also be due to the clumsy placement of gel pads on them...but I do miss the little sweep back on the Ritcheys.
I also neglected to note the placement of the brifters when I changed...so I wonder if some of the increase in hand pain is due to that. And my plan is to take the pads out from under the tape.

When I went looking for a steel road bike I was helped by a guy in one of the LBS who is a fitter...and he basically told me I needed a frame under 48" with a TT less than 52. This made me realize I had passed over several bikes I thought were too small (???the 50 had felt too big and I assumed the next size down would be too small...why? IDK) Went back to another store and tried the 47cm Aurora and it felt perfect. I bought it at a co-op without too much fitting advice at all.

I did feel confident in what the fiter had told me, and had studied the numbers enough to feel secure buying this bike. Friends with a great deal of experience have told me its a good fit....HOWEVER.....no one has studied me on the bike and given me enough info to make informed choices about components....

wow...i have a lot to say on this subject!!!

i have a photo from the winter of me on the original set up. I'll eat supper and then go get them!:

[elk]

here are the photos, Doc

[TxDoc]

here are the photos, Doc

See, that is sort of what I feared...
From the pictures, again my impression is that the handlebar is way too high. And of course your body tries to compensate by sitting as upright as it can - while still trying to reach the bars. You end up in this hybrid positioning with a pretty steep angle on the seat, and your arms stretched out to reach the handlebars. So you are sitting upright on the bike with the arms basically extended. That means that whatever weight (or tension) is distributed to the upper torso does not get absorbed by the 'natural springs' (elbows), but falls directly on the wrist and hand. That is pretty much a recipe for wrist pain right there.
And this is without considering that maybe you would need fitting of the position of the brifters, and stem length, etc...

I would start with making sure that the saddle is in the right position for you. I can't decide if it's really in the right place from the photo because of the long pants (I can't tell if your leg has a little bit of an angle on the lowest endpoint, or if it's stretched out...)
If you have a stationary trainer and a friend/husband/relative with a little patience you can get them to help in the setup process. Check saddle height first, and get a helper with a plumb line (a thread with a washer or screw at the end as weight would work too) to check the fore/aft position. Once you are sure that your seat is in the right place, You can work on the bars. Just bring the stem back to 0 degrees (it's adjustable so it should be easy), and swap a couple of spacers on top of it to lower the handlebar.
At this point, with the bars lowered, you should be able to come down more and flatten your back - and so your elbows would be bent and your wrist/hands relaxed. From this position, if the stem length is correct for you (80mm may turn out to be a tad short once you come down) and if the brifters are placed correctly, you will be able to comfortably reach your brake levers/shifters from both the hoods and the drops. It should not cause pain because any workload should be absorbed by the elbows. And really your arms should not bear much of the weight at all.
Once you are in the correct positioning, theis is where you can check the placement of the brifters on the handlebar, the angle of the handlebar, and the stem length (and angle, in case you need to change it) for optimal reach and minimum effort/tension. If still the bars do not feel right, then maybe you need different drop/reach combination, i.e. a new bar. But really that Cinelli is a medium compromise, so I really doubt that it could be the source of the problem.

Not sure if this whole thing makes any sense - it's always easier to do it than to describe it But seriously, from the photos the strain on the wrist seem to be coming from being too upright. In general, the upright position may be comfortable on a cruiser (big wing bars, moustache, albatross, etc) - but it cannot really be comfortable on a road bike because it's actually kind of going against the geometry of the road bike with drop bars...
Hope this helps!

[TxDoc]

The cinelli you have is actually a nice compromise - where are your brake/shifters positioned now on the new bar?

[elk]

freshly shot...with the new angle on the stem, and my new tape.

[TxDoc]

freshly shot...with the new angle on the stem, and my new tape.

Niiice colors! matching tape and saddle, wow!
So yes, I confirm my pevious post, the main suggestions are to 1-bring the stem back to 0, 2-swap two of the three spacers on top of the stem, 3-redo the fitting (saddle height, fore/aft, stem adjustments) on the trainer with someone that can look at you and help, 4-try and test ride to se how you feel.
It does take a while to find your optimal fit, and you need either a pro fitting service or some experimentation (trial and error, really) - so you are on the good track

[elk]

thank you for your eyes and your suggestions, ...I will give them a try...

I LOVE that Easton bar...but a 42 is just too big...if it was 40 I would've bought a month ago!!

The Ritchey is quite like what I have without the ergo bend...now that I have the shims, I could probably use them again...

but I do love looking at bars

[elk]

i moved the bar down one spacer (i'd rather go slowly...if i need to move it 2 i will) and will work on the saddle H and F/A when I get mr elk's eyes later....

I don't know yet how it will FEEL...but I must say she looks rather sleeker...

HIS new bike...the volpe should be ready soon...can't wait!! (the LBS is raising his bars to level with his saddle)

wish it wasn't QUITE so hot...want to check it all out!!! on a longish ride...

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

For whatever it's worth, I do not agree with lowering your bars, Elk.
The Jamis is a touring bike, not a racing bike. I think doing this will open yet another can of worms and compound your problems even further.

Ideally, a good LBS could help you with dialing in your bike fit. Please consider it.
But in the meantime....

The new picture looks good to me, and I hope the shims are helping you brake reach problem that you started out with. I love your description of your Jamis as a little Morgan horse- it looks just like one!!

I see that you have your saddle all the way back- that's good for now and will help keep your weight off your hands. But I think you have your bars tilted upwards too much. A good starting place is to have the tops of the bars be somewhere near level.
If the new bars feel too cramped and narrow, they could well be causing your hand pain, so possibly just put your old comfier bars back on? You wanted to get rid of the bar padding anyway, so....
On the old pictures, it almost looks to me that your leg is straightening out too straight on the pedal downstroke. If your leg straightens all the way when pedaling, then you should lower your seat a bit until your leg 'almost' straightens. Another indication of a too high seat setting is if you find your hips are rocking from side to side as you pedal. Ideally your hips should be relatively still while pedaling.

One thing we tend to do while riding touring bikes is to sit up straight and straighten our arms and hold ourselves up by leaning on our hands. Then we just let our stomachs sag down too and add more to the weight on our hands. Yes this can cause significant wrist/hand/shoulder pain. You can fix this without lowering your bars by breaking the sagging-back straight-arm habit posture. Concentrate on tipping your pelvis (by tipping your tailbone DOWN and your pubic bone UP) and curving your lower back more. (this will have added benefits of less pressure on your girly parts) As TxDoc noted, once your lower back is more curved (actually just less saggy) you can start training your core stomach muscles to hold you up instead of your weight on your hands.
I know this because I worked on correcting this posture habit in myself when riding my Rivendell touring bike with the bars the same height as the saddle. It really works if you keep reminding your body as you ride. That's my opinion based on my own experience on two touring geometry road bikes,
Remember, your bike is not a chair. Don't sit on it like you were just watching tv. Float over your bike and be one with it. You are essentially walking and moving inside a marvelous machine.

[TxDoc]

HIS new bike...the volpe should be ready soon...can't wait!!

Wow, so he got the new volpe... PICTURES???