Son and I finally went shopping for his new bike. After reading all I could find about Clydsdale riders we decided to order the Surly long haul trucker. A new shop in E. Lansing Michigan, Revolution Bikes, http://revolutionbikesllc.com/ had the best prices of anywhere we checked. They do mostly internet mail order sales. They seemed to know what they were doing when they measured him for the bike. The bike should be in next week. My son was invited to come back while they set it up for him so he can learn a little about the bike. They also run a weekly ride out of the shop in which he was invited to participate so they could help him learn about proper pedaling and such. I'll post again after the bike gets set up for him.