Need help on bike size!!!

[mountainpics]

I'm getting my girlfriend an Orbea Diva (I think)...She has an inseam of 33.5 - is 5'9" and has a short torso. According to Competitive Cyclist's fit calculator, she needs about a 515-520mm top tube and a longish seat tube (56 or so). I want to get her a size 53 Diva (good top tube length for her at 525mm), but I'm concerned that her seat will be high in relation to the top of the bars with her longish legs (she's not a racer and doesn't necessarily wanna ride with a flat back). I am buying the frame and a Campy Chorus Carbon group, so I can leave the steerer tube kinda long and use a stem that rises, but I don't know - seems my only other option for a longer seat tube would be the 54 Orca, but that has a 550mm top tube - too long. Any advice??? Is there a company who makes WOMEN's frames who DON'T assume that WOMAN = SHORT?? Isn't it kinda common for women to have long legs and a shorter torso...Where is a frame that has a short top tube and longer seat tube?

[VeloVT]

Hmmm... are you sure you got the measurements right for the calculator? I'm 5'6", 31.5" inseam, and my bike, which is a very comfortable fit right now, has a 51.5 cm tt -- but I'm running a 120mm stem (-6 deg rise) and maybe could go a bit longer still... I'd be surprised if someone 5'9", even with a short torso, would fit on a bike this size...

Oh, that's the bike in question in my avatar, by the way... you can see even in such a small picture that it's quite compact and, well, small...

[ilima]

First off--you rock. Second, an Orbea may just not be the right bike for her. The 53cm Diva sounds a bit short for her height, although even people of the same dimensions may prefer different positions.

I think the 54cm Orca would be too big. One mitigating factor of the Diva is that the steeper seat tube angle will have the result of her needing to place her saddle further back to get the same seat position relative to the bottom bracket than a bike with a slacker STA (e.g., Orca).

One effect of having a 'smaller' bike is that there is more saddle to bar drop than with a bigger one. You can stack a bunch of spacers under the bars, but too many looks ugly.

For the kind of money you're going to spend, you really need to have your GF ride some bikes & get fit first. That would be my advice; try the Diva and have her try a Madone WSD in a 54cm (53cm TT).

Also, don't forget looks ARE important. We like to ride purty bikes & your and her definition of purty may be different.

[mountainpics]

First off--you rock. Second, an Orbea may just not be the right bike for her. The 53cm Diva sounds a bit short for her height, although even people of the same dimensions may prefer different positions.

I think the 54cm Orca would be too big. One mitigating factor of the Diva is that the steeper seat tube angle will have the result of her needing to place her saddle further back to get the same seat position relative to the bottom bracket than a bike with a slacker STA (e.g., Orca).

One effect of having a 'smaller' bike is that there is more saddle to bar drop than with a bigger one. You can stack a bunch of spacers under the bars, but too many looks ugly.

For the kind of money you're going to spend, you really need to have your GF ride some bikes & get fit first. That would be my advice; try the Diva and have her try a Madone WSD in a 54cm (53cm TT).

Also, don't forget looks ARE important. We like to ride purty bikes & your and her definition of purty may be different.

Thanks for all of the comments....her definition of purty happens to be the same as mine - she loves my Orange Orca and WANTS a blue Diva....I WISH I could have her sit on (and ride) a 53 Diva to see how it fits for her, but my LBS Orbea dealer doesn't carry any higher end stuff and certainly no women's models. I think the steeper seat tube (than the Orca) will work in her favor with her short torso...guess there's no real answer, then, except getting her on a Diva OR finding a bike the LBS DOES have that is the same geometry. Thanks again (and come to think of it...I DO ROCK!)

[aicabsolut]

I think the CC calculator can be a bit off. It's just guidelines. The best thing would be to have her sit on some bikes. She sounds like she's probably a good candidate for WSD geometry, but you do have to take into consideration her reach and flexibility too. She may do just fine on anywhere between 52-57cm frames, depending on the overall geometry for the specific model and manufacturer (head tube length and angle, seat tube angle and virtual top tube length). Why not have her sit on an Orca or Onix? That will at least put you in a ballpark for frame size. She can tell you what she likes or dislikes about the fit. Who knows, she may not need WSD geometry. Then you might have to use a longer stem or something if she really really wants the Diva.

[mountainpics]

I think the CC calculator can be a bit off. It's just guidelines. The best thing would be to have her sit on some bikes. She sounds like she's probably a good candidate for WSD geometry, but you do have to take into consideration her reach and flexibility too. She may do just fine on anywhere between 52-57cm frames, depending on the overall geometry for the specific model and manufacturer (head tube length and angle, seat tube angle and virtual top tube length). Why not have her sit on an Orca or Onix? That will at least put you in a ballpark for frame size. She can tell you what she likes or dislikes about the fit. Who knows, she may not need WSD geometry. Then you might have to use a longer stem or something if she really really wants the Diva.

I would absolutely LOVE to have her sit on an Orca or Onic or Diva, but no one is 200 miles from me has one (except me - my 51 Orca), which I'm raising the saddle on and having her sit on this afternoon. If anything, she'll need a short stem with her short torso. Just called Orbea and they steered me away from the Diva because they said the seat angle would be too steep for her long legs unless I moved the seat all the way back (which I could see doing and then compensating with a shorter stem). Anyone out there who has similar measurements (33.5 " inseam, short torso)? What are YOU riding?

[Triskeliongirl]

For the kind of money you are talking about, she needs to be professionally fit. Even without a bike, a good fit should be able to let her try diff. set-ups on one of those fit-cycles, etc., in order to figure out what is the best frame to order.

Terry makes bikes with proportionally shorter top tubes, but not in carbon which you seem to be looking for.

I think a sloping top tube design will help with the fact you may need to buy a smaller frame than her height demands to get the right TT length. But don't be fooled by steeper seat tube angles. Even though they make the TT appear shorter, they lengthen the reach since you need to slide the saddle back further on its rails to achieve the same KOP position.

Of the top of my head, why don't you look at the new Cervelo RS. I think the STAs are too steep on the orbeas for many women with long femurs.

[tulip]

Very nice of you to buy her a Diva...BUT if it doesn't fit her, it doesn't matter how nice a bike it is. She won't be comfortable on it if it doesn't fit.

I urge you to go shopping with her and get a bike that fits her properly. It might not be an Orbea...but it will fit her, which is more important than the brand anyways.

To answer your question, I ride a Luna Eclipse. It's custom-built, but it comes out to about a 49cm. I'm 5'6" tall with long legs and a short torso. I never thought I would ride such a small frame, but it's the most comfortable bike I've ever owned.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I don't think it's a good idea to get a frame that you already suspect is not quite the right geometry and then depend on shoving the saddle back and putting on a short stem and swapping various handelbars to try to make it fit better. Such tweaking should just be fine tuning on a frame that basically has the right geometry to begin with. I know.

Oh, I just noticed that Tulip posted right before me. That makes two of us on custom Luna bikes that fit us like gloves. Silky fit is a joyous thing to experience, and it's something that many (not all) women have difficulty finding in bikes made basically for men's 'long arm proportions'.

[silver]

I'd just want to challange your thought that she has a short torso....I'm 5'8" with a 34" inseam and I don't consider myself to have a short torso. I ride a regular trek madone (07) size 58cm (actual measurement is 55cm seat tube/top tube). I've shortened the stem though. Admittedly I've been professionally fitted to a regular size 54cm trek madone in the 08 model. Just a thought as you continue your process here.

[Flur]

I'm 5'7" and have a 32" inseam. I actually have a log torso and long arms. I ride a Bianchi 1885 (a mens frame), size 53, which has a 52.4cm top tube with a virtual measurement of 53.5cm and a seat tube of 50cm. I'm very comfortable with my reach and my seat height in relation to my handlebars, but if your measurements are correct, most of the 2-inch height difference between your GF and me is in the legs. My seat is about 3 inches higher than my handlebars, which really is pretty high... Granted, I ride a completely different bike, but I would think you're probably right about the seat being too high in relation to the bars on a 53.

Just to add, for what you'd be spending, you might want to look at custom frame builders...

[aicabsolut]

I'd just want to challange your thought that she has a short torso....I'm 5'8" with a 34" inseam and I don't consider myself to have a short torso. I ride a regular trek madone (07) size 58cm (actual measurement is 55cm seat tube/top tube). I've shortened the stem though. Admittedly I've been professionally fitted to a regular size 54cm trek madone in the 08 model. Just a thought as you continue your process here.

Yeah, I agree. I'm 5'7" with a 32.5 inseam, and I ride a men's 54cm Specialized Roubaix (54.8cm virtual top tube) with a 110mm stem. I have a lot of bend in my elbows to compensate for the head tube height, but this is comfortable for me. My femurs are a little on the short side, proportionately, so I have my saddle a tad on the forward side. In a more aggressive bike with a shorter head tube, I might go down to a 52. In a TT bike, I'd definitely pick 51-52, because of the different body position, to keep my elbows under my shoulders. I tried WSD bikes, and they were way too upright and cramped in the reach for me.

A friend of mine is 5'9" with closer to 34" inseam, and she definitely has a short torso. Her reach is further compromised by the titanium rods in her spine from a skiing accident, so she cannot get a very aero position and be able to keep her eyes up to see in front of her. She can still handle a few inches of handlebar drop. She rides a 57cm Madone WSD and loves it. In a men's frame, she might have to go as small as 54cm, depending on the company.

Have you looked at geometry charts to find something with similar numbers as the Orbea? If you can find a more common brand where you live with approximately the same geometry, you can use those for sizing and then have your shop order the right Orbea.

[ilima]

I would absolutely LOVE to have her sit on an Orca or Onic or Diva, but no one is 200 miles from me has one (except me - my 51 Orca), which I'm raising the saddle on and having her sit on this afternoon. If anything, she'll need a short stem with her short torso. Just called Orbea and they steered me away from the Diva because they said the seat angle would be too steep for her long legs unless I moved the seat all the way back (which I could see doing and then compensating with a shorter stem). Anyone out there who has similar measurements (33.5 " inseam, short torso)? What are YOU riding?

I think most of us that have responded are skeptical that she would need a 51.5cm TT. It just seems to short given her height, unless she has really short arms, which seems unlikely given her long legs. The steep STA would help to increase the reach on the Diva precisely because the saddle would need to be set back a bit. To me, that would be a good thing as I think the Diva's TT sounds a bit too short.

I'm 5'4", 31" inseam (pretty long for my height) with longish arms and my road bike has a 52cm TT; 74 STA, 80mm stem. A friend that is 5'10" and has loooong legs rides a 56cm Felt men's bike. Probably a 55cm TT, although it's probably a bit too long for her.

The Diva with a setback seatpost just might work. If you need to use a stem shorter than 80-90mm or so though, I'd say it doesn't work.

[mountainpics]

I think most of us that have responded are skeptical that she would need a 51.5cm TT. It just seems to short given her height, unless she has really short arms, which seems unlikely given her long legs. The steep STA would help to increase the reach on the Diva precisely because the saddle would need to be set back a bit. To me, that would be a good thing as I think the Diva's TT sounds a bit too short.

I'm 5'4", 31" inseam (pretty long for my height) with longish arms and my road bike has a 52cm TT; 74 STA, 80mm stem. A friend that is 5'10" and has loooong legs rides a 56cm Felt men's bike. Probably a 55cm TT, although it's probably a bit too long for her.

The Diva with a setback seatpost just might work. If you need to use a stem shorter than 80-90mm or so though, I'd say it doesn't work.

Wow - thanks everyone for all of your input. I'm getting a bit of conflicting opinion from everyone, though. I checked with the bike shop where I used to work where we did a Fit Kit Pro fitting - her numbers from that were pretty different than what I got from the CC Fit Calculator...it recommended a 545 top tube and a 100-110 stem - waaaay longer than the 515 top tube and 90 stem CC's calculator suggested. I really think a men's frame would work, but nervous about the longer top tubes. She used to have a 56 Men's Felt road bike and felt too stretched out. I had her sit on my 51 Orca (same seat tube length, 10mm longer top tube and slightly slacker ST angle) with the saddle raised and the stem raised to simulate the taller head tube on the Diva 53. She said she felt good on it and was ok with the 5-6cm drop from top of saddle to top of h-bars (which could be decreased even more with a slightly rising stem and/or 1 more spacer).

I agree about getting a bike that fits - I will end up spending about $3000. Buying a frame and building it with Campy Chorus/Record and using her Tri Bike (A Felt 56 B2, by the way - too big for her but she wanted something where her h-bars would be about the same height as saddle for her Ironman race Aug. 9) training wheels. $3k is a lot to spend on a bike that's not a perfect fit, but I'm concerned there may not BE a perfect fit out there. I DID find a Trek and A Specialized at my LBS that have similar geometries to the 53 Diva, so I am going to have her check them out and we'll go from there. I must also admit to being partial to the Diva since I have the Orca.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I agree about getting a bike that fits - I will end up spending about $3000. Buying a frame and building it with Campy Chorus/Record and using her Tri Bike (A Felt 56 B2, by the way - too big for her but she wanted something where her h-bars would be about the same height as saddle for her Ironman race Aug. 9) training wheels. $3k is a lot to spend on a bike that's not a perfect fit, but I'm concerned there may not BE a perfect fit out there.

Just my humble opinion....but if I had $3000 to spend, I'd get a custom frame made exactly to my body measurements, and if necessary I'd sacrifice the Campy and put Ultegra components on it instead in order to pay for the custom frame that fit me perfectly. You can always further upgrade components later on, but you can't change the frame geometry.