Ah geez....here we go again (Tour thread)

[NJBikeGal]

You'd think they'd at least be smart enough to use something other than EPO!!! I mean, how easy is it to test for that!

Another One Tests Positive!

[Eden]

You'd think they'd at least be smart enough to use something other than EPO!!! I mean, how easy is it to test for that!
[/URL]

I'm not judging any particular person one way or the other, but if they are still using the test I remember, I actually think the EPO test can be somewhat subjective.... the test ends up with a bunch of bands on a gel and the person reading it has to judge whether or not the epo band is "dark enough" to be a positive. Not only that, there are certain conditions that can cause a false positive on the test.

Not only that, there are supposedly ways to beat the test, with carefully controlled dosing, so it actually makes sense to me that this would be the drug of choice for a person trying to get away with something.......

Knowing those two things, I suppose if a person were to use anything, EPO would be the logical choice. You can't really explain away someone else's red blood cells or plant based testosterones in your body (not that it hasn't been tried), but the hope with EPO would be that you'd got the schedule right and won't get a positive test and if you do, there are then multiple reasons why you might get a false positive test to explain it away. Of course these days it takes longer to fight the 2 year suspension, than to just serve it.

[NJBikeGal]

I certainly don't claim to know anything about the technical side of testing for these substances. However, it would seem to me that these guys KNOW that those running the tests are going to be specifically looking for EPO among other substances. It's this type of arrogant belief that they are going to get away with using the specific substance that is being looked for that I find amazing.

Case in point #3 - Riccardo Ricco.

[Kalidurga]

In Ricco's case, he was apparently using a new version of EPO that was thought to be harder to detect. Not hard enough, though.

[NJBikeGal]

I'll just listen to Jonathan Vaughters...

[VeloVT]

I'm kind of curious as to what's going on with Saunier-Duval. This morning during live coverage Phil & Paul seemed a bit perplexed that there wasn't more information regarding why the team withdrew.

Here's the official team statement from the Saunier-Duval website:

OFFICIAL STATEMENT
SAUNIER DUVAL-SCOTT Statement
17/07/2008
SAUNIER DUVAL-SCOTT announce that just an hour before the start of today´s stage, the French anti-doping agency notified Riccardo Riccò that he´d tested positive for a banned substance after the fourth stage of the Tour de France 2008. Although the Tour organisers allow teams to continue to participate after a positive test, given Riccò ´s important role to the team in the race, SAUNIER DUVAL-SCOTT have decided to withdraw in order to preserve the positive image of the team´s sponsors and the Tour de France itself. Riccò has been suspended.

Moreover, the team decided to temporarily abandon competition activities until this unfortunate incident is clarified.

The last line is curious? Wonder if there's concern by the sponsers that other riders might also be involved?


Anyhoo, my take on this whole issue:
People need to realize that there will NEVER be a tour that is 100% clean. Someone will always try to dope. Just like there will never be an Olympics that are 100% clean. So I get tired of hearing hysterical comments like "can cycling survive one more scandal? is this the END of cycling? this really casts doubt over the future of the tour..." when someone gets caught. I am not talking about this thread at all, I agree that it is disheartening whenever someone we admire tests positive (I was pretty upset when Marion Jones finally actually TESTED positive...of course it coincided with all sorts of other unsavory news about her, giving me a few other reasons to modify my opinion of her, but that's another subject entirely...). Versus plays into the hysteria with its anti-doping commercials (particularly the riding backwards one), you see this attitude both in coverage by mainstream media and in letters to the editor and (user generated) "comments" posts at sources like Cycle Sport and Cycling News. I think we need to be realistic about the goals and likely outcomes of testing in the sport -- and that means **not** expecting to have a tour without any incidents, because that will NEVER happen. I think the goal should be to "de-institutionalize" doping, to change the culture of the sport so that doping isn't just another part of every team's training regime. When that happens though, there will still be some dopers. Hopefully they will be caught and hopefully the incentives will continue to become stronger not to dope... I just get tired of the apocalyptic tone that often accompanies reports on doping in cycling...

Sorry for the rant/ramble...

[NJBikeGal]

Liza, I think you are right. There always have been and always will be cheaters. And I am probably always going to be disappointed when someone is caught...but it's not going to make me stop watching or loving cycling.

As for the Saunier Duval team...I have a feeling that quite a few of them were under suspicion and that they pulled the rest of the team in order to avoid a HUGE scandal and deal with a small one instead.

[Kalidurga]

I'll just listen to Jonathan Vaughters...

Thanks for that link, Sarah. I like Jonathan V more each day, in spite of his funky sideburns (or perhaps because of them ).

And I also agree with Liza. That "apocalyptic tone" pervades all news reporting these days and it's becoming very tiresome.

[Fredwina]

rumor on other web sites (pez) is that Saunier-duval is going to disband.(no word on if the team management pulled the plug or the sponsor got fed up)
so , "The Cobra" has put how many folks on the unemployment line ?

[Eden]

Now I've heard apparently all 3 people who've tested positive were caught for the new form of EPO (rEPO). The fact that there was a test for it was kept rather mum, so they probably all expected to get away with it.

[tygab]

good for them (the testers) - it's nice to see the sides are more even. I agree w/others that the team pulled out to keep other riders out of the fray somehow.

But that is what this is about isn't it? Something that's embedded itself so deeply at the team level is going to take time to eliminate as part of cycling accepted practices. That's why I've felt TGC was so out ahead on this one, that they went the other way to be transparent and non-secretive, not only about their anti-doping practices but about the actual performance of the riders and care practices they DO use. It's been very cool to not only get the updates via Twitter, though we often know the results before we sit down to watch the recorded coverage, but to also see the HR and garmin data from the stages.

I haven't read the whole thread so if it's mentioned earlier, sorry - but I think the "space legs" article from Dr. Lim was really interesting. How at first the team riders were like, ehhhh, whatever. And now they love using them...

[SouthernBelle]

I just read an interesting article by David Millar. Interesting views on doping (from one who admits to doing himself) and on ricco (who they all apparently dislike strongly).

http://www.slipstreamsports.com/2008...you-to-believe

[beccaB]

Maybe It's because I'm relatively new at this, but that was some amazing honesty in that article by David Millar

[Kalidurga]

That is a terrific blog by Millar. After what happened with Floyd I'm leery of referring to any of these guys as my "heroes", but VDV could change that. He, Millar, and all of the Chipotle team are just so refreshing. Go Argyle!

Somewhat jaded caveat, though: If I were ever to hear that any of the Chipotle guys had managed to cheat through all of that testing, that could be the one thing to make me go apocalyptic and give up on cycling...

[BikeMomma]

Good stage today, eh? Cavendish looks tired...

Ricco is apparently not so "suave." lol To call him a dumbass would be a compliment. Team Saunier D. pulling out is both disheartening and encouraging. Disheartening because on one hand it looks suspicious, i.e. pull out before the inevitable lightning struck twice, and encouraging because it appears that they may have considered how staying in might create turmoil and speculation throughout the rest of the Tour. Now they can all just get back to racing. Hopefully.

~BikeMomma