Why am I still in academia?

[Dogmama]

The whole thing stinks. I don't suppose the department head would intervene on your behalf?

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. I know how powerless it feels to deal with academia, tenure and a thousand hoops.

A side note - it's interesting that he is taking his equipment. Unless written otherwise, equipment purchased through a grant (I'm assuming that is how it was purchased) (1) stays with the originating institution or (2) is returned to the grantee. Lots of paperwork, including current value assessments, are usually generated, ad nauseum. It would be interesting to see if that is actually in place.....(trails off, whistling in the distance...)

Unless, of course, his equipment is trash, in which case the originating University is usually glad that it doesn't have to deal with disposal of same.

Hmmmm....

[Triskeliongirl]

I thought you told us that the Institution has to sign the letter, not your former boss. Remember the grant that pays your salary was issued to your institution, not your mentor, so the administrator in your grants managment office should sign the letter. The letter is just to request a change of mentor, correct?

It is typical for equipment to transfer with a PI, as long as the research grant that paid for it is also transferring institutions (at least in the biomedical sciences). The paperwork isn't complicated, its part of the paperwork for transferring a grant, which the PIs new institution gladly will prepare.

I think you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself. PIs move, he offered you a job, you didn't want it, so you need to live with your choices.

[Dogmama]

I thought you told us that the Institution has to sign the letter, not your former boss. Remember the grant that pays your salary was issued to your institution, not your mentor, so the administrator in your grants managment office should sign the letter. The letter is just to request a change of mentor, correct?

It is typical for equipment to transfer with a PI, as long as the research grant that paid for it is also transferring institutions (at least in the biomedical sciences). The paperwork isn't complicated, its part of the paperwork for transferring a grant, which the PIs new institution gladly will prepare.

I think you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself. PIs move, he offered you a job, you didn't want it, so you need to live with your choices.

Who can issue a change of mentorship and how equipment transfers depends on the wording of the grant. I've seen it lots of different ways. Maybe you need to really scrutinize the contract. Contacting your grants management office is a great idea. Could save you lots of time & trouble.

[Duck on Wheels]

Why is anybody still in Academe? I guess because, when things run well, it's a great place to be. We get paid to pursue our curiosity, and to enthuse over our interests to students who more or less share them. And the pay's even pretty good once you get established. So it can be a good place to work. But the notion that academics are somehow more civilized than ordinary humans is counterproductive. We're as varied as any other branch of humanity in that regard (in fact, the status and autonomy may attract more than our fair share of sociopaths, but I doubt there's a reliable statistic on that). Anyhooo, the notion is counterproductive because, in part due to that presumed civilizing effect of education, we have a high degree of autonomy and weak administrations. In a crisis, that can be catastrophic.

Today I was involved in solving just such a crisis-turning-into-catastrophe. Two professors in neighboring departments here had, for some reason unknown to me, decided to dump their shared PhD fellow from the program. They may have other reasons, but the ones they've officially offered do not hold water. The student came to me since I was teaching one of her classes (Philosophy of Science for the Social Sciences). Luckily, she did well on her term paper for my class, so I was able to argue her case upward through the hierarchy, using my authority as instructor to defend her against her supervisors' claims that she wasn't competent to complete the degree. Without that "second opinion", the administration would never have dared to oppose her supervisors' assessment. Today the dean seems to have landed on a fair solution. If her head of department agrees, she'll be allowed to change supervisors. Whew! She and I and a sympathetic professor from her department all went out into the sunshine and ate ice cream bars to celebrate. I'm glad things sometimes get set right! I hope your case lands right side up as well!

Now back to grading exams (one of the more boring aspects of Academe ).

[Melalvai]

I thought you told us that the Institution has to sign the letter, not your former boss.

They will write the letter if he doesn't. It is far preferable to get the letter from him if possible. That means I have to jump through the hoops he's designated. If he still doesn't sign the letter after I've done my part, by July 2, then the university will sign it. Refusing to do my part is tantamount to burning a bridge. The bridge may get burned in the end but it won't be by me.

I think you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself. PIs move, he offered you a job, you didn't want it, so you need to live with your choices.

Well, I can live with my choice, but it seems he can't live with my choice. Since he is continuing to harrass me with his "conditions" for this stupid letter. I'm not feeling sorry for myself. I'm really angry at him. And pretty pessimistic about the future which will likely contain more people just like him.

If it gets bad enough during the next 2 years, my husband will delay or give up his degree so I can start a new job somewhere else.

[Tuckervill]

Now, you would think all things considered, they would have said "oh no you didn't". But the one looked at me with this rather sad smile and said "Yeah you did, but she sure was proud of you". And that still makes me cry.

Having adult children myself who I have been through hell (and an actual war) with as well, I can assure you that your mother would not have changed a thing. ::hugs::

Karen

[Possegal]

Thank you for that Karen. I should clarify that it makes me cry in a good way. It was an ongoing joke with my mother of how she felt she had been to hell and back but that now, in her words i could keep her in the lifestyle to which she was accustomed. My mother was not one to verbalize her feelings, so "i'm proud of you" was something i always felt, but never heard. no complaints, it is who she was. But to hear her friends say it, was very comforting.

[Triskeliongirl]

Well, it does seem like he is making this more difficult than it has to be, although you know getting your work published is win win for both of you, so the conditions don't seem too unreasonable to me.

Maybe I am less sympathetic because I have been in his shoes, however I have to tell you I treated my people much better when I changed institutions. I had one student that needed another year to finish, but didn't want to relocate since her husband was also in school. I found a colleague willing to house her in his lab (who happened to be her husband's advisor), and I continued to advise her, but at a distance. The dept. agreed to move the university purchased equipment that was staying behind to his lab for her to use. I then 'loaned' her unique equipment she needed that was officially transferring to my new institution, with the understanding she would ship it to me when her work was finishhed. While I transferred my NIH grant, I arranged to leave enough money behind to pay for her stipend and supplies. All of this was carefully drawn up in agreements between my new and old institution. In fact, the old institution made it hard, because since we set up her support as a sub-contract, but then they wanted me to pay them overhead on it, which meant double overhead which I couldn't afford. So, my old dept. chair had to negotiate that part down. I flew back for the defense, she still graduated as 'my student' and it was win win for everyone.

But my advice to you is still to stop being angry, cuz anger doesn't get you anything. Do what you have to do to get your work done, and then think hard about what you need to do to move on to a more independent position which will carry more autonomy and less vulnerability. By channeling your anger, energy, what have you, into productive endeavors like doing good science, publishing your work, and building a strong CV, you put yourself in the strongest possible position. This is how I have always operated my career. I have had my share of A-holes, as has my husband, but by focusing always on our scientific productivity, doing significant work and publishing in top journals, we have been able to have very successful and satisfying careers in academic science.

[Melalvai]

Well, it does seem like he is making this more difficult than it has to be, although you know getting your work published is win win for both of you, so the conditions don't seem too unreasonable to me.

Exactly, I need that paper way more than he does, so why does he have to say "I won't sign the letter until your paper is submitted"? He'll get that paper because I have to have it. Linking in to the letter made me tempted to submit it without giving the other authors adequate time to review it.

While I transferred my NIH grant, I arranged to leave enough money behind to pay for her stipend and supplies. All of this was carefully drawn up in agreements between my new and old institution.

That is something in fact which he adamantly refused, I don't need much money (relative to how much he has in grants, which is a number I am familiar with), and it would have made things lots smoother for me.

But my advice to you is still to stop being angry, cuz anger doesn't get you anything.

Well, this is my place to vent. I'm not mouthing off everywhere. There are many, many responses to his pettiness that I'm not giving into because I'm above that. I don't care about burning bridges or whatever, cause I think it's hopeless.

I wish I could just stop being angry at will. Eventually he'll be out of my life and I'll forget about it. It's been a rough 6 weeks, and I've got another 3 to go.

[Melalvai]

A side note - it's interesting that he is taking his equipment. Unless written otherwise, equipment purchased through a grant (I'm assuming that is how it was purchased) (1) stays with the originating institution or (2) is returned to the grantee. Lots of paperwork, including current value assessments, are usually generated, ad nauseum. It would be interesting to see if that is actually in place.....(trails off, whistling in the distance...)

He came from another university 5 years ago (5 yrs and 1 day to be precise...that is when he'll be vested with this uni and the next day he starts at ND). Some of his equip was purchased on grants that are moving with him, some was brought with him at the time, etc. I'm sure the dept didn't purchase anything of his so that is not moving with him.