Daydreaming here...

[RoadRaven]

actually there are European Women Pro Races - I can't remember them all right now but there is a Womens version of the Giro and I believe there is a womens version of the Tour. The womens T-Mobile team races in them.

Yes... I know... but they are women's races... and I meant that for a woman to aspire to ride in something like the Tour de France with people like Armstrong, Ulrich or DaveZ is an unrealistic goal... you have to recognise the limitations of a female body to build effective muscle and enter races accordingly.

The top echelon of female cyclists are fantastic, and pound for pound may even be better atheletes than men - but they are not in the ball park of their elite male counterparts.

Just look at the results in Olympics, or compare Mens/Womens Giro or Mens Womens Tour... men and women will never compete together

I should have included some of the womens races in my little say. Apologies for being unclear

I was just trying to explain to Blue that any pro race goals she sets herself need to be gender realistic

[bounceswoosh]

I was just trying to explain to Blue that any pro race goals she sets herself need to be gender realistic

This is something that I've thought about a lot. And I'm not convinced it's right.

Are there differences between male and female bodies? Yes, absolutely. But is it helpful to say, "Well, I'll never reach these speeds, so I'm not even going to set that goal"? I'm not convinced it is.

Typically, when an athlete breaks a previous record, over the next several years several other people break that previous record, too. I think it's a matter of psychology -- suddenly people realize it's possible, and so it happens.

I don't know that the gender gap will ever go away, but it seems like it could narrow. More and more girls are growing up playing sports.

When I was in high school, my martial arts classes were predominantly teenage boys. I'm sure that I tried harder than I would have if my only competition were female.

So ... I guess what I'm saying is, why not dream about competing in the Tour? You might not get there, but you might get farther than if you didn't try for it.

[runnergirl]

This issue really get me going!!!

Cycling is the last sexist main-stream sport. There's no reason that women can't cover the same distances as men, they will always be a few miles an hour slower, but they can cover the distances. I think that the tour should include a women's pelaton either a day ahead or a day behind on the same course. I was so enraged when I found out how short the tour de a'lude was I can't tell you!

Not to get too far off-topic, but the coverage of women's cycling is really abhorent as well. This month's Rodie magazine profiled a woman who has been dropped from t-mobile, and spent more time discussing her modeling career than her riding. Not to mention the playboy type pictures-absolutly disgusting. And I wonder why there are so many dirty old men at most club rides.

[bluerider]

Rant away my friends! I am upset at the non-existent coverage of women's road cycling on TV and non-existent features in roadie mags. Although I would love love love to see women's road races featured the way TdF is, I am also a realist and know that in my lifetime, women's cycling will be overshadowed by the men. I agree that women's physiology may not naturally lend to speeds that the men have but I won't agree that it's not possible. I'm a wannabe racer and would be deluded to think that I could compete in a high profile race like TdF or Giro or the Vuelta. Would I like to? You betcha! My beef isn't that women can't compete with the men, it's that events for women are viewed as lesser and essentially no coverage exists.

But I think by participating in local races and at best at the national level can gradually elevate interest and garner more respect for women's cycling.

[fixedgeargirl]

Perhaps in our day we will start to see more coverage of women's road racing. Just look at the WNBA. Did you ever think you'd see such a thing when you were a kid? It's also brought a lot of exposure to women's college ball.

What is coverage of women's events like in Europe, where cycling has been a *sport* since a very long time ago? Cycling has only been a *sport*, meaning recognized as such by the Joe-on-the-street, here in the US since Lance started winning TdF.

You'd think advertisers would gladly sponsor an hour or two of hot betties in lycra suits flexing their well-toned rears .

[RoadRaven]

Phew...
lots of stuff here

Absolutely no reason why women's races shouldn't be the same length as mens
Elite female cyclists do the same miles and go through the same pain as elite male cyclists
No doubt
I am not saying that elite women cyclists are inferior - they are performing at the top of their ability and beyond what most of us (including many men) can hope to achieve

BUT... physiology is the limiting factor

If women could achieve the power and speed on bikes that men could then there would be some female domestiques, or lieutenants or quarterbacks (terms I quite like described on the Science of Lance) on something like the current Tour we are watching
These teams want the best - the fastest, strongest riders. I doubt very much they would say no to an elite cyclist who could fit into the team speeds just because she was a woman.
But there are no female riders

The fact is that women - despite being able to achieve incredible athleticism and power outputs and times and cover amazing distances... will never, unless/until human physiology changes, make it with the equivalent elite male cyclists.
Our body shape is different
Our fat/muscle ratio is different

You see the same thing in other disciplines too (For example... Women body builders do not build the muscle mass of males and Male runners hold the fastest overall times)

I as much, if not more, than anyone here would love to see elite male and female riders in the same races both at the front when the finish line is reached, but it just is not realistic

[bounceswoosh]

I am not saying that elite women cyclists are inferior - they are performing at the top of their ability and beyond what most of us (including many men) can hope to achieve

BUT... physiology is the limiting factor

SNIP

I as much, if not more, than anyone here would love to see elite male and female riders in the same races both at the front when the finish line is reached, but it just is not realistic

If you're responding to me ... look, the physiology thing may be true, but what's the point in thinking about it? I still believe that it's better to aim high. If a woman trains with the goal of making it to the men's Tour, I am certain she will perform better than a woman who trains with a "more achievable" goal. So what if she doesn't actually make it into the Tour?

And who knows, if women keep training like that, maybe one day there will be some women in the Tour. We've seen a few women in men's competitions recently, from golf to formula 1.

I'd love to see elite male and female riders duking it out for the finish, too. But I think a good first step would be to get some females in the race, regardless of how they place. And if that's ever going to happen, it will be because some elite women say, "I can do that," and not because they say "I can't."

[RoadRaven]

Perhaps in our day we will start to see more coverage of women's road racing. Just look at the WNBA. Did you ever think you'd see such a thing when you were a kid? It's also brought a lot of exposure to women's college ball.

What is coverage of women's events like in Europe, where cycling has been a *sport* since a very long time ago? Cycling has only been a *sport*, meaning recognized as such by the Joe-on-the-street, here in the US since Lance started winning TdF.

You'd think advertisers would gladly sponsor an hour or two of hot betties in lycra suits flexing their well-toned rears .

I agree - there are alot of women out there who would watch, and the mens audience would grow too
I guess it has to be sold to advertisers as a glamour event (like the Tour has been) and then the money will fall into place for coverage
Communities have to keep badgering networks and letting them know we wnat coverage - if they don't hear us, they won't respond

[AutumnBreez]

Why isn't there a completely different race for Women? It would get enough women to compete, don't you think? Besides the dirty ol' men could sit with beers and their remote controls and watch the girls ride if they did not come in person.
Why is it that men can get upset at Women's only clubs and wittle their way into them using the excuse that they are being excluded due to the sex of the club?

Perhaps a Women's Cycling magazine is what we need? Anyone interested in beginning one? One that also focuses on off season/on season exercises, tips, diagrams of proper form, etc., Nutritional info, with a chosen recipe for the month. I don't know how to get one started. I just have lots of ideas on the lay out. Advertisements do help fund, but would not want half mag. to be advertisement, but a focus on Women's Cycling would be nice.
Ya, probably dreaming, but many things we have today are from dreams that seemed less then likely to become what they are today. Flight for example, from Wright Bros. to NASA in such a short time. Women's Voting rights. Don't stop dreaming ladies, we will see Women's Pro Cycling if we have determination and persistance, dedication and vision to see it.

[RoadRaven]

Why isn't there a completely different race for Women? It would get enough women to compete, don't you think?

There are pro-race events for women... we just don't hear much about them cause they're not worth much to sponsers/advertisers

Perhaps a Women's Cycling magazine is what we need?

This would be great... I don't know about around the world, but the road race mags we get here are Australian, European and American and all male focused.
The mountain bike mags seem to have more women in them.
Any female fitness mags here seem to fill up with useless tips and irrelevant recipes and not focused training plans etc, let alone single disciplines for women.
There is a good multi-sport mag here that represents both genders well.

[spazzdog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AutumnBreez
Why isn't there a completely different race for Women? It would get enough women to compete, don't you think?

Refering to my previous post, there are "completely different races for women".

The Grande Boucle Féminine Internationale (grrls TdF) a 6 stage tour, which supposedly ran June 28-July 2 this year. The website (if you can read French) is:
http://www.velo-feminin.com/

Notice it occured the week before the TdF... anybody hear anything about it?
Didn't think so.

For the full UCI calendar for Elite Women go to: http://www.uci.ch/imgArchive/Calenda...005-FEMMES.pdf

As for a magazine... that would be great, but again it takes money. WomenSport mag started out great and ended up looking like a mini-Cosmo. Perhaps all of us that subscribe/purchase VeloNews, ProCycling, CyclingNews, etc should hit them all with an email/letter campaign demanding "equal" coverage.

I don't mean to be so harsh, but as an original Title 9 baby I've seen it over and over again since the early '70's.

spazzdog