first "real" road ride

[Geonz]

Good heavens, I think the camelbak is more important on the road. Dropped water bottles have caused a few wrecks around here.

[GLC1968]

Most of the people I know who don't use camelbaks on the road is because of the heat factor. It's hot to have your back covered under the beating sun. When we rode in NC, we always passed enough country stores or gas stations to get water, so two bottles was plenty for most rides. Now that we are riding in country where there are NO STORES, I definitely see the draw of a camelbak. I wished I'd had mine for our ride this past Saturday - heat or no heat!

I do remember having difficulty drinking enough while riding when I first started out because I couldn't drink from a bottle while the bike was moving. Keep practicing, you'll get it! Oh, and it helps to tip the bottle up to the side (either right or left depending on which hand you use) to get water out while still keeping your eyes on the road in front of you.

It sounds like your first 'real ride' was great fun! I don't have any helpful advice about the ankle thing, but I hope you get it figured out soon!

[sundial]

Not so great stuff: my knees were making their displeasure known.

Just curious, are you using something like Speedplays that have a lot of float? My Speedplays really helped my knees and ankles.

I have been very happy using a camelbak for mountain biking, but I gather that's just not done in road riding.

It is here! We have some brutal temps in the summer and I've known fellow cyclists who got too dehyrdated by not using their Camelbacks. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[bounceswoosh]

Ahhh, the camelback--looks like you hit a spot . Do what works, don't worry what anyone thinks...but, learning to drink from a bottle is a good skill to have. Don't give up, yet. There's a thread all about it. It gets easier.

I'm not too worried about it -- it'll come with time. Like you say, I think it's a good skill to have. It does seem like the cool kids around here disdain camelbaks; if I need one, I'll wear one, but if so I want it to be because it's the best choice for me, not because I'm too lazy to learn how to drink out of a bottle! On the mountain bike, I have gotten very used to the camelbak, but it's the blowfish model, and I use it as much for the ability to cart miscellaneous "stuff" with me as for water. It's pretty huge; I don't think I'd want to wear it on the road. I have a smaller one more suitable for riding, but it holds less water than two bottles. And I already have a third industrial-strength one for hiking and skiing, so I really don't want to buy a fourth one just for road riding =P

Hrm, I wonder if you can buy camelbak stock ... looks like probably not ... darn.

I don't know enough about positoning on the bike to give advice, but it sounds like something's off. Is your saddle too high? Are you riding clipless? Could be your cleat position. Could be a lot of things, I guess. I'd start with the saddle. It's always the saddle. Oh, and you'll soon discover the quest for the perfect one is not unlike Ponce de León's search for the fountain of youth. You will look far and wide, and measuring devices will be implemented .

LOL! I went through the saddle shopping process for my mountain bike. Many were called; few were chosen. Okay, one was chosen. But in this case I don't think it's the saddle, and I don't think it's the saddle height. Cleat position is a possibility. I'll do another ride or two and see what shakes out.

Glad you had such a great ride! Your time sounds fast. Looks like you're in this for the long haul. Welcome to the club!

Wellll ... I *was* riding with DH, him mostly in the lead, so he probably pulled me along except when I was so slow I couldn't even stay close enough to draft him. This particular ride was pretty flat for around here. We'll see how I do if I actually try to ride to Jamestown or something!

If you are on a downhill and run out of gears and want to pick up more speed, then crouch down low over your handlebars and tuck in your knees and elbows and get more aerodynamic. As long as you are going downhill, you'll continue to pick up more speed this way.

Thanks, Bleecker -- to be honest, I didn't even go down into the drops, so maybe I need to figure that part out. (Seems so much more ... vulnerable ...)

Just curious, are you using something like Speedplays that have a lot of float? My Speedplays really helped my knees and ankles.

They're the Shimano SPD pedals for the road bike. I would imagine they have the same play as my mountain bike's pedals, although those pedals are a few years old. Do pedals get more play as they get older?

The ankle thing could be that with all the fast spinning you were trying to do or with the extra climbing you had more ankle action going on. That means more force getting into the downstroke while engaging your anterior tibialis muscle and working those extensor tendons. It could also mean locking your ankles by freezing those tendons to try to get a few more rpms out on the descents. Either way, if it's not your shoe strap fit or anything then it's probably just that that part of your calf is out of shape. Whereas you'd feel it at lower cadences or hiking up a mountain (walking) towards the upper part of the calf, with the action of road cycling at faster cadences, you're more likely to tire out faster down towards the tendons the muscle connects to in the ankle.

I'm a little confused because the pain was in the front of my ankle, just below my shin -- but it sounds like you're talking more about the calf. There could be an imbalance in my muscles for sure -- but I want to be sure we're talking about the same thing.

Other than that, the only thing I can think of is that you're moving your toes around inside the shoe or doing something else abnormal on a more difficult road ride than you'd do elsewhere.

I'm probably doing something abnormal! I always try to wiggle my toes here and there to reduce numbness, but unless I'm purposely doing that, I don't think they move at all.

Oh, and it helps to tip the bottle up to the side (either right or left depending on which hand you use) to get water out while still keeping your eyes on the road in front of you.

GREAT tip! Thank you for that.

[aicabsolut]

I'm a little confused because the pain was in the front of my ankle, just below my shin -- but it sounds like you're talking more about the calf. There could be an imbalance in my muscles for sure -- but I want to be sure we're talking about the same thing.




I'm probably doing something abnormal! I always try to wiggle my toes here and there to reduce numbness, but unless I'm purposely doing that, I don't think they move at all.



GREAT tip! Thank you for that.

Yeah, well the anterior tibialis muscle connects to the extensor tendons at the bottom, at the ankle. These are the tendons and muscles involved in dorsiflexion (bringing toes up). So, really any overexertion in dorsiflexion (whether you think about raising your toes or pushing down with your heels) will make you sore there. It's more likely that you're going to wear things out near one attachment area (here, ankle versus up by the knee). This also indicates that there's something going on with your ankle action or toe action rather than something from the upper leg. An example with the lateral calf: Tendon pain in the peroneals is more common for cyclists down around the outer ankle, alongside the ankle bone to the attachment of one of them at the 5th metatarsal. These tendons also attach up around the fibular head, but most fibular head pain tends to be because of hamstring tendonitis, at the attachment of those tendons.

Obviously, if this persists, you should consult a physician, but I was trying to think of reasons you'd be straining that area on these road rides when you wouldn't overexert yourself on your commute or mountain bike.

[OakLeaf]

Are you sure your shoes aren't putting pressure on those tendons? Not rubbing, just pressing. Some of my running shoes do that. I just had to re-lace a pair of shoes because I bruised them pretty hard on my second-to-last run.

+1 on not worrying about whether a hydration pack is fashionable. I don't like to use one on the bike either (weight on my back is the #1 reason, and heat is a close second). But I sweat and I get dehydrated very easily, so on hot days and/or longer rides you bet I wear it. There was a 42-miler I did on a hot day last year when I went through both standard size water bottles AND my 60-oz Platypus and was on "E" by the time I got back.

Arm fatigue is probably more conditioning than it is form. You should be using your arms when you ride, particularly when you're climbing.

Descending, you're much MORE stable in the drops. Your CoG is lower, plus you have better access to the brakes if needed.

Sounds like you had fun! Yee-ha!

[bounceswoosh]

Are you sure your shoes aren't putting pressure on those tendons? Not rubbing, just pressing. Some of my running shoes do that. I just had to re-lace a pair of shoes because I bruised them pretty hard on my second-to-last run.

It's definitely possible. One thing I didn't mention in my initial post, but maybe should have, is that my right (dominant) ankle hurt much sooner and worse than my left, and that my right big toe is injured -- I went to kick a soccer ball and my big toe hit a girl's planted foot a few weeks ago. So another possibility is that, even though my foot seems fine in the cycling shoe, it may be positioned slightly differently than it normally would be. That could tie to the ankles as well as the knees (although I still think my knees were just arthritis -- that's what it felt like, and we've had the kind of weather recently that tends to make my knees ache.)

Arm fatigue is probably more conditioning than it is form. You should be using your arms when you ride, particularly when you're climbing.

Maybe. It was kind of an ache to the outside of the elbow; I tend to put weight on my hands rather than supporting myself from my core, so I suspect that my arms were too rigid and too weighted.

Descending, you're much MORE stable in the drops. Your CoG is lower, plus you have better access to the brakes if needed.

Better access to the brakes, really? I will have to play with that.

Sounds like you had fun! Yee-ha!

I sure did!

[bounceswoosh]

Yeah, well the anterior tibialis muscle connects to the extensor tendons at the bottom, at the ankle. These are the tendons and muscles involved in dorsiflexion (bringing toes up). So, really any overexertion in dorsiflexion (whether you think about raising your toes or pushing down with your heels) will make you sore there. It's more likely that you're going to wear things out near one attachment area (here, ankle versus up by the knee). This also indicates that there's something going on with your ankle action or toe action rather than something from the upper leg. An example with the lateral calf: Tendon pain in the peroneals is more common for cyclists down around the outer ankle, alongside the ankle bone to the attachment of one of them at the 5th metatarsal. These tendons also attach up around the fibular head, but most fibular head pain tends to be because of hamstring tendonitis, at the attachment of those tendons.

Obviously, if this persists, you should consult a physician, but I was trying to think of reasons you'd be straining that area on these road rides when you wouldn't overexert yourself on your commute or mountain bike.

Thank you. I will have to read that post a few times to understand fully =) But it certainly could be that I was pedaling differently that day than usual, or just more than I'm used to.

[aicabsolut]

They're the Shimano SPD pedals for the road bike. I would imagine they have the same play as my mountain bike's pedals, although those pedals are a few years old. Do pedals get more play as they get older?

Shimano SPD-SL ?

These are "Look-style" pedals. They do have some float, which is set by the type of cleat. There is only one float setting for SPD-SL, because there is only one cleat. Look pedals (Look cleats are not compatible) have a few float options based on cleat color. Black = no float. Red (Delta and KEO) = 9 degrees, and Grey (KEO only) = 4.5 degrees. I don't know the exact amount for Shimano, but I believe it's about on par with the grey KEO cleats.

No, they should not get any extra float as they age. Mountain bike pedals come with a variety of float options, so that is irrelevant.

Speedplay pedals are the tiny lollipop looking ones. They are ROAD pedals. Some of them have crazy amounts of float. Because this pedal system is essentially reversed (the main mechanism is in the cleat, which is huge, and the pedal is tiny), float can be set in the cleat, based on which model of pedal you use. Some people complain that they have too much float and that they feel like they're skating on ice and that they lose too much energy with the lateral play on the pedal. Others think that this system is a godsend for their joints.

I would never use a camelbak, and I never drink ice cold water. My belly would cramp up so bad. If I have to because I stopped at a store and have nothing else to drink, I swish it around in my mouth first to warm it up before it hits the stomach. Anyway, for comfort, I'd rather stick an extra bottle in a jersey pocket than wear a camelbak.

[bounceswoosh]

Shimano SPD-SL ?

Sorry -- I should have been more specific.

My several-year-old mountain bike pedals are the SPD-style M647. The ones on my road bike are also SPD-style, the A520, which is one-sided.

I would never use a camelbak, and I never drink ice cold water. My belly would cramp up so bad. If I have to because I stopped at a store and have nothing else to drink, I swish it around in my mouth first to warm it up before it hits the stomach. Anyway, for comfort, I'd rather stick an extra bottle in a jersey pocket than wear a camelbak.

Amen. I do the mouth-swishing thing too, although not if I can help it =) I have also overcome my embarrassment and have learned to ask the friendly waiter bringing the table glasses full of ice water to please bring me water without ice instead.

In a pinch, I would rather drink hot water than cold.

[Kano]

Most of the people I know who don't use camelbaks on the road is because of the heat factor. It's hot to have your back covered under the beating sun.

I don't know about hot to have your back covered with a 100 oz pack of ice water....

(yup, even when it's 105 outside, an icewater pack on your back feels pretty darned good!)

Karen in Boise

[bounceswoosh]

I don't know about hot to have your back covered with a 100 oz pack of ice water....

(yup, even when it's 105 outside, an icewater pack on your back feels pretty darned good!)

Karen in Boise

Ugh! I can't stand ice water! Hurts my teeth, cramps my belly. (And all my camelbaks have significant padding between the bladder and the back, anyway.)

[GLC1968]

I don't know about hot to have your back covered with a 100 oz pack of ice water....

(yup, even when it's 105 outside, an icewater pack on your back feels pretty darned good!)

Karen in Boise

Ice water doesn't stay ice water under the southern sun for more than an hour or so. And at 97 degrees and 85% humidity - anything on your back that doesn't breathe is pretty miserable!

I'm not saying a camelbak doesn't have it's advantages - I'm just offering up the reason most roadies in our old neck of the woods didn't use them.

[Kano]

[QUOTE=GLC1968;319772]Ice water doesn't stay ice water under the southern sun for more than an hour or so. And at 97 degrees and 85% humidity - anything on your back that doesn't breathe is pretty miserable!
QUOTE]

The one I have has some "lifter padding" against my back, and while out in 95 and 14% humidity (desert life -- they say it's "muggy" when the humidity is like 25%. what they've got to learn around here!) on Sunday afternoon, water loaded at 8:15 in the morning was still nice and cool -- and my cell phone was downright chilly!

naw, it wasn't an all day ride, it was down to my daughter's nail salon, sit around, downtown to the home show and outdoor concert, sit around, and then home at the hot part of the day, when DH finally got tired of sitting around! Good thing we had a nice breeze and some shade!

Karen in Boise