Advice please: wage negotiation

[LBTC]

Let's see:

The stresses of the new job are not really known, except that I've worked with the person who would be my boss, and he is very calm, smart and easy to work with, while still providing challenge and being strategically driven.

The stress of the current job isn't bad, but within a few months I'll have to answer to two bosses, the current boss who is very calm and easy to work with plus the crazy childish blaming mean boss I worked for already.

The industry I would be leaving is struggling in Canada, big time. The industry I would be going to is seeing a bit of a lull, but not nearly as bad as the one I'm leaving....at least not yet.

In fact it's bad enough in my industry that I never know when they'll decide to cut more jobs, and, though I think mine is safe, one never knows.

In my 12 years with the company, in 3 locations and several different positions, have been either taken advantage of, or under utilized. Currently I'm in a department that is quiet and all about numbers - and I'd rather be in a fast paced area with more interaction with people, and more presentation type stuff to work on.

I don't know how much vacation they will offer. I think I should ask for the 4 weeks I currently get, but I think I would accept 3 if the rest of the offer is good.

There is opportunity for training in this new job that is industry specific, but will still be interesting.

It's definitely a smaller company and it's been years since I've worked for one of those. In the last few years I've found the beaureucracy of the big company to be really quite a drag.

[shootingstar]

I don't know how much vacation they will offer. I think I should ask for the 4 weeks I currently get, but I think I would accept 3 if the rest of the offer is good.

There is opportunity for training in this new job that is industry specific, but will still be interesting.

It's definitely a smaller company and it's been years since I've worked for one of those. In the last few years I've found the beaureucracy of the big company to be really quite a drag.

Stick to 4 wks. vacation benefit, if your salary in end, will be 20% lower. You will THANK yourself later on. However I don't know if this job offer requires a very different skill set than present one. Oh don't tell me. There's a vague job description. Those can be killers...in the distant future..if you get real good but job spec. doesn't get upgraded and they don't know how to upgrade a job to occupational standard.

As for training, pin it down to a particular course(s) or conference on annual basis as a minimum.

Do they have a well-organized human resources dept...I mean someone who is experienced in HR, manpower planning, staff development, etc. Or is it all on favours/who knows whom?

In the end, it depends how much you want to invest/learn in your job/career and what you plan to do long-term. Do you plan to always be in Vernon?

I always looked at a job from how much new knowledge and skills I could acquire..I mean hard, demonstrable skills and knowledge. This helped me alot..and helped for the periods of overtime with no extra compensation.

[LBTC]

SS - what sort of work do you do?

In my experience, an administrative assistant always has some vagueness in the job description. But there are some specifics, and some strategic things they want my help and expertise with.

Yes, with the information I have today, I plan to retire in Vernon. That's 15-25 years away (holy!), so, obviously, things can change in that time, but we moved here with that in mind, and we haven't had any desire to change that yet.

I doubt there is much of an HR department to this company, so far. I think the VP of Operations is probably it. I'll see what I can find out about that.

I won't budge on the 4 weeks vacation unless the offer comes up 30%. The base, not counting pension and benefits, is 20% lower than I make now, so they need to come up between 25% and 30%.

One thing I'd like to know is - do I use real dollars or percentages when I come back with my counter offer? It's not quite as easy as negotiating on a house, is it?

Thanks for giving me much to think about. I appreciate it!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[Blueberry]

LBTC-

I do quite a bit of negotiating in my line of work

I think you need to ask for more information from them before you come back with a counter. At a minimum, you need to know for sure on a pension, health insurance costs and vacation. Add any extra cost to what you make now. I'd start with a number 5-10% above that, but let them know you have a little room to move. I would use numbers. I would also play this as you've going to be doing more/be more critical to the company than you currently are - therefore you need to be paid more.

Good luck!!

CA

[SheFly]

I like that you are considering the entire package as part of your negotiation - that is smart. Base salary is only part of the equation.

When I negotiate in these situations, I think about the most important aspects TO ME. for example, vacation is more important to me than base salary, so I will push that over a number. Also, NEVER count on profit-sharing or bonuses. These are a nice BONUS if they happen, but should not be considered as part of your thinking, in case they don't happen for whatever reason.

Also, I would have these conversations verbally vs. via email. While negotiating a new package is difficult (and as women, we are generally very bad at it), it is best done face-to-face.

Just my $0.02, FWIW. Good luck!

SheFly

[Tuckervill]

Perhaps you could consider asking for a guaranteed first year salary that is acceptable to you, in exchange for a greater share of the profits in the future?

Say your old base salary is 50, and they're offering 30, but you could live on 40 for a year, for the chance that the profit share in certain number of years would be virtually guaranteed to be more than 5. After the first year, the salary goes down to the agreed upon one, and you make up the difference in profit share.

This would help you make the transition to lower salary, but with a chance for greater money down the road. This works best when you are paid on performance (sales), but it could work in your situation, too.

Good luck!

Karen

[LBTC]

Thank you for the good ideas and tips. Here is what I have done so far.

My reply this morning was:

Good morning,

I am pleased that we will continue this discussion. :-)

In order for me to make a fair comparison to my current situation, please let me know the types of coverage that are provided in the benefit package, the cost to the employee for that coverage, your pension or RRSP plan, the vacation benefit that you are proposing, and any other items that you intend to include in the compensation package. I'll be interested to see the similarities and differences, and will be able to adjust my salary requirements accordingly.

Thank you in advance,

Yes, I included the smiley face because I am that kind of person. They should know that.

I have also sent a query to our benefits department here so that I know how our defined benefit pension plan works - it was introduced a few years ago, and I don't remember the $/year formula; and I have sent a query to my investment guy to see if he can tell me how much more I'd need to invest each year to make up for the loss of said pension.

I'll also do a full printout of my medical benefits so that I'll be able to compare directly.

I am not in a position to take a pay cut at all. DH did just 2 years ago and he's still at only about 70% of what he was making before; and it costs way more to live here - I think our housing costs have doubled. So, even a few K less per year would be painful. Besides, I've been doing administrative work for 20 years, have lots of variety in my experience, and would be playing quite a strategic role with this company - I think it makes sense for this to be a step forward not backwards.

So, now I wait. And soon I will crunch numbers.

If you have any more ideas, thoughts, or plans that I should consider, please let me know!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[shootingstar]

SS - what sort of work do you do?

In my experience, an administrative assistant always has some vagueness in the job description. But there are some specifics, and some strategic things they want my help and expertise with.

Yes, with the information I have today, I plan to retire in Vernon. That's 15-25 years away (holy!), so, obviously, things can change in that time, but we moved here with that in mind, and we haven't had any desire to change that yet.

I'm sorry about your grandmother's death.

In this particular job, I am a document control manager. My job requires planning, hands-on database design, taxonomy design, working with dept. heads to develop and implement project-wide best practices and quality procedures for document workflow and document/records management. Job includes developing and delivering computer-based group training regularily. Our business controls must meet specific project contractual needs for records retention. Job requires interpreting and implementing practices that meet legislative requirements at federal and provincial level.

By the end of next year, have forecasted over 100,000 different documents (electronic & originals). All of this acquired within a 3-yr. period. System is deployed for 150 employees over 6 different locations. (There are nearly 300 employed, but not all want to darken an office doorway.). Some of these locations are work trailers..out in muddy fields...I have to make site visits to all. I do manage /supervise and evaluate other staff.

In the engineering sector, document management systems are audited to met ISO QA standards. Have in the past, audited other departments, which were libraries.

My formal training and other career experience is as a librarian. You'll find us in: knowledge management, content management, document/records management, competitive intelligence....plus your so-called "libraries".

Hope you make a meaningful decision for yourself. As for the stability of a job, nothing is forever these days. Not even in govn't...one could easily be shifted somewhere else. I don't hang my hat on a company pension..but as long as the pension can be vested and is portable, if one leaves.

Forest industry in B.C. has seen some big changes in past decade. Not easy... But then the mining industry that seems to be bouncing not too badly, might fall on its nose later...as it did for quite awhile.