"Women who ride"... on the sidewalk...

[elk]

Glad I asked. Thank you for your thoughtful responses!

I've been thinking about this for awhile and had the vague feeling that there was a lot more to think about...kind of like when I see someone whose dog is hauling them down the street and I think...Jeepers, train your dog...if you can't do it yourself, get some help...kind of thing. I know what I'm talking about..but they are kind of clueless. That's how I felt at the beginning of ths thread.

to add:

Here in Portland, there was some discussion (bikeportland.org) about whether or not to press for seperated bike lanes....like they have in parts of Europe:

traffic /parked cars / bike lane / sidewalk. instead of

traffic / bike lane / parked cars / sidewalk

I could not think of a single reason NOT to do that...yet there was vociferous objection from the "cycles as vehicles" contingent.

If you/we/us want more people to ride, then it seems to me that there ought to be choices (as PscyclePath said) for riders of all temperements.
I would not want my 72 yr old mom, or my 13 yo niece to HAVE to ride in traffic...Yet I want them to be able to use their bikes as much as possible...

what to do?

But see...here I asked a question and already I'm expressing an opinion

[PscyclePath]

The biggest hazard to a cyclist riding on a sidewalk is the cars.

Pedestrians and cyclists don't pose much threat to each other. The problem is when the sidewalk crosses an intersection, the traffic moving through the intersection isn't expecting something moving so fast. At a walk you can easily change direction or stop, anything faster, not so easy.

I have a friend who was jogging on a sidewalk with her dog when she was hit by a car. SHE looked--the driver didn't. Her dog was fine.

Absolutely. People ride the sidewalks because they mistakenly believe that "cars don't go there." The reality is that cars go there all the time -- at every single driveway. And in Arkansas, as well as other states, there's no specific law about sidewalks, so unless there's a city ordinance prohibiting it, you can drive your car on the sidewalk too! Fortunately not too many folks have figured the out yet ;-)

The Bike Path Folks and the Vehicular Cyclists often remain at open war with each other... the VCs claiming that the BP folks are sissy-babies for not taking to the streets, and the BP folks claiming that the VC folks don't want any more dedicated bike lanes established. The VCs tend to be a little more testosterone-laden and outpoken. In fact, at BikeForum.net, the VCs got banished to their own subforum when the arguments got too hot.

Me, I ride VC-style, but like having the opportunity to take advantage of the "best of both worlds" provisions.

[Grog]

Here in Portland, there was some discussion (bikeportland.org) about whether or not to press for seperated bike lanes....like they have in parts of Europe:

traffic /parked cars / bike lane / sidewalk. instead of

traffic / bike lane / parked cars / sidewalk

I could not think of a single reason NOT to do that...yet there was vociferous objection from the "cycles as vehicles" contingent.

One of the major reasons is, again, intersections: fast-moving vehicles (that need to turn) are not expected to be on the right of parked cars. I am afraid that having the cars and bike lane separated by parked cars will make cyclists more invisible to drivers, and increase the number of right-hooks.

[mimitabby]

In European countries where roads are much narrower than ours, cars and bikes share the road nicely. The drivers of cars know that the bicyclists are fellow human beings and treat them as such.
In Seattle, it seems to me that bike numbers are increasing on the roads; this is good, as motorists get used to them, they're not going to react with surprise and anger as much. (crossing fingers)

[elk]

geez I don't know...We have no sidewalks in my neighborhood and when I am walking the dogs, we have to walk in the street. I deck us out like christmas trees with lights and reflectors...and people look at us and don't slow down AT ALL.

I think that most ppl are SO in their heads that they don't even realize they are in cars...I want as much room as possible between me and them....

[Geonz]

The infrastructures & cultures are significantly different in Europe. We're simply not going to turn into Europe by building separate paths... as if I could even *imagine* that being added to our transportation budgets. In Illinois, we don't even *get* what is added ot the budget - most of it never gets distributed and simply gets sent back to the Feds. Somehow they're supposed to send X percent of stuff back, so they take bunches of it from "unimportant" stuff like cycling facilities. (THis year, though, they didn't bother to distribute the funds for Safe Routes to Schools, so there are a few moms upset and of course it doesn't sound nearly as inoccuous as saying "well, we trimmed the budget from these cycling frills" as it is to have not given out the funds awarded to help kids get to school.)

Separate is nice, in theory... but again, unless that separate path doesn't cross other roads and driveways, every conflict is a gamble.

http://www.resourceroom.net/pcc/windsorpath1.htm is the photo essay I did of what's not such a bad path... but I can fully understand why somebody who wants to get *home* would prefer the road. Most of these issues would be just as true with the path on the other side of parked cars.

[Eden]

Here's a great illustration of why it is not necessarily safe to ride on sidewalks

This accident occured yesterday between two bicycles, one was on a multi use trail and crossing the street (legally on the green) the other on the sidewalk and crossed his path perpendicularly.

[q] I was crossing with the green on the crosswalk going westbound to work, upon getting past the street another rider came down the west sidewalk going south, but she didn't stop, and there was a bus waiting on the southbound lane so she just "appeared"[/q]

This can of course happen with cars too! In fact the same intersection where this happend is kind of nasty as many cars do a right on red without stopping (illegal!) and seemingly without looking (stupid!), even though there is a very well known bike path that crosses the street there.

Even though it was at a slow speed (he said about 12mph) the cyclist who wrote about the accident broke the frame of his steel bike! and the other person involved had taco'd wheels and took a trip to the ER.

Never assume that sidewalks or bikepaths are automatically safe!

[Deborajen]

Here's a great illustration of why it is not necessarily safe to ride on sidewalks

This accident occured yesterday between two bicycles, one was on a multi use trail and crossing the street (legally on the green) the other on the sidewalk and crossed his path perpendicularly.

[q] I was crossing with the green on the crosswalk going westbound to work, upon getting past the street another rider came down the west sidewalk going south, but she didn't stop, and there was a bus waiting on the southbound lane so she just "appeared"[/q]

A big part of this problem is that people on sidewalks seem to think that no stop sign specifically for them means it's o.k. (or even safe) to go - no need to look, no need to peek around a blind corner, etc. Then again, that's assuming the rider on the sidewalk was familiar with the intersection in the first place - Perhaps that rider didn't know the sidewalk was intersecting with a bike path and, therefore, needed a stop and a glance - ?

Sidewalks are just loaded with hazards and they're mainly built for pedestrian traffic which doesn't move very fast. Put a bike on it, the bike goes faster/can't stop as quickly/isn't as likely to be anticipated by car traffic, etc. - the cyclist really has to fend for him/herself. I don't have the answers, but I'll stick to riding on roads that have room for me and where I can ride like a slow car and be predictable to the cars.

Deb

[mimitabby]

When I choose to ride on a sidewalk, I am always going VERY slow.
I generally ride on sidewalks when there is not much of an alternative; like
going from King street to Jackson Via 6th, that one block is 1 way the wrong way; so I ride the sidewalk and cross Jackson via the crosswalk and from there
I get back onto Jackson into the street.

[Geonz]

Right... when comparing to Europe it's important to remember that Europe is older than we are... and their infrastructures less automobile-centric.

[mimitabby]

I'm not sure what you're talking about, Sue, where I've seen a lot of bicycling in Italy, the roads were VERY narrow, often without shoulders, without those nice little guardrails too.
The difference is NOT the infrastructure, Italy's infrastructure is absolutely impoverished compared to ours.
The difference is in ATTITUDE. The average motorist in Italy has at least one grandparent who rode his bicycle to work, and maybe still does.

Who's want to run over their own grandmother?

[kat_h]

The drivers of cars know that the bicyclists are fellow human beings and treat them as such.

That is key. Calgary has bike paths along the rivers, but no bike lanes on streets. There is one street that has a picture of a bike painted on the pavement at the start of each block. When those are visable drivers on that street are quite decent, because they understand that bikes are supposed to be there too. When those are covered in snow then that street is just like any other in town.

[mimitabby]

That is key. Calgary has bike paths along the rivers, but no bike lanes on streets. There is one street that has a picture of a bike painted on the pavement at the start of each block. When those are visable drivers on that street are quite decent, because they understand that bikes are supposed to be there too. When those are covered in snow then that street is just like any other in town.

You know, I think those things are helping in Seattle too (crossing my fingers)

[KnottedYet]

I know I've said it before, and I'm sorry to constantly repeat myself; but I think the "Bicycle Boulevards" in Berkeley CA are just an amazingly elegant solution. (traffic calmed streets just off the main streets, signage, and sharrows.)

[elk]

we got Bicycle Boulevards here in Portland...and we're getting bike boxes at 14 intersections!!!!

It's a start!!