Here's one that will take a long time

[Starfish]

Suggestions that we head soemwhere after a ride, etc. have generally gotten "too busy" negatives. It's been a while since he asked me out

You know, I hate to say it, but if he isn't taking you up on offers to do stuff together, I'm thinking he might not be smitten...

But, don't listen to me, I'm an idiot.

[teigyr]

Hmmm. I will have to ask DH what he thinks but rest assured that names will be changed to protect the innocent.

My initial reaction is that some guys (DH included) are semi-dense. It's not an insult, it just is what it is. You have to be blunt and put it out there or else they don't notice. I also know, however, that some guys know when you "like" them and instead of dealing with it (ie acknowledging it and saying they don't feel the same way or simply acting on it), they act like scared little bunnies. Not to be judgmental, women do it too Speaking for myself, if I feel pressure, I act in non-dignified ways.

So, p'haps if you two went out as friends and you asked "have you ever thought...." in such a way as to not make him feel horrible if he said no and your friendship was left intact. While initial impression seems like if he was into you he wouldn't always be busy but then again, you never know. I have had male friends that I had THE hugest crushes on and bailed out on "let's hang out" not-dates because I didn't feel like it or was tired but had I known they liked me, I would've gone for sure.

Lastly, maybe he never DID think about more but it's not to say he wouldn't if it were to be brought up.

So in a roundabout way, I think I covered all the bases and answered nothing. I think though if he hasn't understood subtle by now, it's time to step it up a bit as long as it's in a non-pressured way. I'll see what DH thinks though. While he'd never post here, this is one of the times where a male perspective might be warranted. I will report back.

[KnottedYet]

I am socially inept. Kinda like a guy. (but cuter ) If I had a crush on someone and they asked me on a date, I'd panic and say "no." (even though I wanted to say "yes")

So... maybe you shouldn't take "no" as an answer. Or maybe you should take the whole question out of the realm of words. (but slowly, so as not to frighten the timid wild creature)

[Tuckervill]

But don't put all your hopes in the one basket. It could ruin a beautiful friendship, if he perceived you as desperate--or more likely, made him terrified to hurt your feelings by saying no (most guys worth their salt are terrified to hurt someone's feelings and it could make him panic and avoid you for a long time). I wouldn't force a date on him, either, with the dressing up and all that.

Just bring it up in conversation. Be who you are. Be true to the relationship you've already built.

Karen

[KnottedYet]

Be true to the relationship you've already built.

Karen

Oh, Tuckervill, you are wise!

[Wahine]

Maybe you could convince him to take a bike touring weekend with you and just where things go?

[Starfish]

I wouldn't force a date on him, either, with the dressing up and all that.

I don't think you can force someone to go on a date, dress up or any other kind. You just ask, and they either go or they don't. It is up to them.

But, that really is what it comes down to...all you can do is ask for what you want, or make your feelings known one way or another (in a way that works for you), and then let go of the outcome.

And, as far as "ruining a friendship," the risk is either worth it to you or it isn't. You could lose or strain something you have now, and be sorry. You could gain something beautiful, and be contented. (ETA...or experience a gazillion other possible outcomes that you cannot predict.) Only you know where you currently fall on this spectrum of risk.

I really do wish you peacefulness. I know that when feelings are involved, these are not easy questions. <insert gentle smile>

[Zen]

So in a roundabout way, I think I covered all the bases and answered nothing.

How about this-
would you rather regret something you did do or something you didn't do?

[lph]

aaah - I had that as my guideline for a while - and let's say I certainly regret some things I did... If you're somewhat the reckless type, you'd better have a bad memory.

Joking aside, I think Tuckervill put it beautifully. You have to be true to yourself and the relationship that's already there. I'd say skip all the careful flirtation if you're actually kinda sick of it. If you can be honest and straightforward without seeming desperate I'd say your chances are good of both getting an honest answer and keeping him as a friend. You want to tell him you're interested, but also that you're not going to shrivel up and die if he says no.

But it would help if you were somewhere conducive to this kind of conversation. And yes - some of us put this a lot better in, uh, body language than in words.

Scary stuff, this. But hey - it's what makes the world go round, right?

[Geonz]

Those are words to keep going back to... because yes, we have a wonderful relationship, and I don't get that close to people easily. And the thoughts here have helped me realize that yea, the bottom line here is I want to figure out how to cross a physical threshold and/or I really wish I could translate the assorted signals so I could have half a guess as to where he felt about that... except that I'm reasonably, positively certain that... he is totally and completely up in the air about it and wafts back and forth. (We had a completely hysterical conversation once with another friend, getting the bikes off his car to go for a metric century. The other friend was having trouble getting her wheel off by herself and so he & I had this banter about having had entirely too much practice getting things off by ourselves and for at least part of the conversation she was trying to make sense of that in a bicycling context...)
Yes (per the advice of another friend and just natural sense), I've been doin' my darndest to have casual contact but the fact is I am a *practiced* klutz so even folding bicycles in close proximity ... I'm mroe concerned with not mashing my fingers in a hinge than the odd caress
Much appreciation felt for the kindness & encouragement.

[teigyr]

How about this-
would you rather regret something you did do or something you didn't do?

That makes my head hurt. I had an initial response but then thought more and wafted and then thought more and went back to my initial. It's early

DH was about as circular as I am. He says the variables are: he knows and doesn't feel the same way, he knows and DOES feel the same way but doesn't know how to initiate it, he's thought about it but doesn't know your feelings (and his are either pro or con), and he has never thought about it.

DH thought it could be brought up a few ways that would allow the relationship to stay intact. One way could be "hey, have you ever thought about..." or the more evil way of setting up a story of "I was talking to <insert name here> and were discussing the perfect traits in a person I'm dating. I kept coming back to you. Have you ever thought of...?" I don't like the second way because I'm bad at making up stories. DH thought the R word (relationship) could be brought up because there is a relationship already.

I think no risk no gain but you have to be prepared for all eventual outcomes. For me, at least, the known is generally better than the unknown.

Good luck though and please keeping posting as to what happens! Re the "accidental" physical contact...I keep thinking of the H.S. days. You know, when the guy yawns and puts his arm around you or the old "I have to roll up the car window" maneuver. Then again, I guess most car windows don't "roll up" anymore

[Zen]

I keep coming back to "well, there's always alcohol"

[Geonz]

That is absolutely, very much the kind of tactic I'm thinking of. In Vino Veritas. NOthing on a "have some madeira, my dear" scale, but

I've been subtly applying the suggestion machine in my household, which is not to be confused with my house, which is occupied by the mom and four sons who are grandsons to the couple whose house I"m staying in while their daughter figures out where to go since it's not back to her husband. (I stayed with them for several years when I first came out here... it *is* an act of generosity but a reciprocal one.) Before her heart surgery they'd entertained some... tho' now the oft-visiting grandkids use up most of that energy. Except that they like this guy rather a lot, too and he doesn't really require entertainment energy. And this winter has just sucked for stuff like that... and right now the grandkids are passing around the flu so everybody including mom is sick so the healthy ones get dropped off at grandpop's so everybody's exhausted. But somehow I shall figure out a way to have this fellow over and the wine will flow. I even think my tolerance might be higher

[jillm]

Hi Sue,

I've been following your thread like it's a soap opera! You know I don't post much but I had to get in on this.

How about one of these days when it's warmed up some, take a ride out to Sleepy Creek Vineyards over in the Oakwood / Fairmount area. They've got a little pond, you can have a glass of wine...there are a couple of kitties moseying about. It's a lovely place. (btw, Little Woody is my favorite, Dreamer is a good white, the others are too sweet for my taste, but still good) So have a glass of wine and pass him the note "will you go will me, check yes or no"... Is there a grown-up version of that?

You've met Geoff. We were platonic friends for 10 years and then something happened. It was just the right time for both of us, and we've been together for 6 years now. I see your situation as similar. Maybe the timing is right for you.

Good luck!
Jill