Heartrate discussion

[Grog]

p.s. I re-read your original message and it leaves me wondering if the HR data from anaerobic exercises (lifting weights, doing squats, running 100m, etc.) should be interpreted differently than that of aerobic exercise (cycling and running at "normal" pace). We need an exercise physiologist here!

And, by the way, if you doc told you "you have the heart of an old woman" at age 35 THAT would be a problem. I'll take a juvenile heart any day.

[SadieKate]

As I recall from hearing Sally Edwards speak eons ago, max HR is sport specific. She has lots of free articles which may have more info.

http://www.heartzones.com/resources/

[Tuckervill]

This is all very interesting.

*Polar off by 33%! (per the other thread quoted) Oy vay. It has worked for me to lower the calories I logged from Calorie King figures to the Polar figure. I've lost 2 pounds in two weeks, which is better than I've been doing. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that I'm burning 450-500 calories for an hour's work out. Since I have nothing else to base it on, and CK was clearly high, I'm going to stick with this. (Maybe Polar's HRM's got better, too.)

*I have hit my max heart rate according to the formula 220-age, at least twice during this class that I can remember. Once was this morning. The other was last week doing squat thrusts.

*The "boot camp" that I take is very laid back. Everyone goes at their own pace. I was pushing it hard during the sprints. (I haven't run fast in a long time and I was having fun.) If I wanted to stop the squat thrusts before I maxed out, I could.

*I can go a long time in the 60-80% range, and I'm happy with that. Climbing hills on the bike, though--that really cranks it up and it ticks me off. That's not even standing! I already climb slow, so slowing down more does not appeal to me!

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is how to manage that meteoric rise to max HR that occurs in those situations, without just refusing to do it. I'm concerned that it's not safe, either--after a minute of squat thrusts I'm at my max? A sprint of maybe a 10th of a mile? Can this be healthy?

Karen

[Tuckervill]

Grog, you're post gave me lots to think about. I'm going to digest it.

As for sports-specific HR...I can tell what things will spike my heart rate and what won't, before I do them. I do try to avoid doing those things. This gives me a mental block against hills. I haven't got to ride yet with my HRM, but I'm going go out and do some experimenting as soon as I can.

Sometimes we do circuits that include an arc-trainer with a HR monitor in the handles. For a while I would play heart rate games and see how high I could get it on the arc-trainer. About 160 was as high as I could go. Anyway.

Thanks, all very informative. You gals rock.

Karen

[Tuckervill]

I just want to clarify that it is squat-thrusts, not just squats, that I'm talking about. The thrusting and jumping back up is what drives the heart rate. (Lifting my fat a@@ in the air!) I can do sumo-type squats all day long.

http://www.expertvillage.com/video/6...uat-thrust.htm

Karen

[SadieKate]

Luckily, my crappy knees prevent me from doing those.

[maillotpois]

SK - that was exactly why I revised my post - I meant that the HR from squats (or weight lifting in general) doesn't translate to HR for cycling. Clearly squats, etc. are beneficial training for cycling.

[tulip]

To burn fat and lose weight, I understand that it's best to do sustained aerobic workouts in which your heartrate is between 60% and 80% of max. If your goal is losing weight, it might be something to keep in mind

[spindizzy]

I just want to clarify that it is squat-thrusts, not just squats, that I'm talking about. The thrusting and jumping back up is what drives the heart rate. (Lifting my fat a@@ in the air!) I can do sumo-type squats all day long.

That sounds like plyometrics to me. Usually for developing power. And it would also kill my knees!

I trained for 8 months with the formula of 220 - HR. Can't say my fitness improved, did not lose any weight. I was consuming about 1800cal/day.

Saw a guy (now my coach) who did metabolic testing. My very efficient body that likes to eat sadly only burns about 1200 cal/day (that was 2 years ago).

Apparently I'm a very efficient fat burner and have the metabolism to do middle to long distance stuff. Tell that to my brain that only likes to do short sprint duathlons!

Anyways, was tested again the other day to make sure I'm training where it is effective for me to improve. My anaerobic threshold for running is 181. Yesterday, I did a run for 45 minutes at 170 as my coaches aim is to "get me comfortable" running at that pace, which is still aerobic for me. I will do a long, slow distance on Sunday. My bike anaerobic threshold is 178, so they're pretty close.

I'm glad I have him to figure out these details as I probably would not have the patience to do this myself - I do find it a bit complicated, especially not going hard all of the time. I have someone to answer to, so I will behave myself.

I'm not sure if this is helpful, or just damn confusing?

[gnat23]

*I have hit my max heart rate according to the formula 220-age, at least twice during this class that I can remember. Once was this morning. The other was last week doing squat thrusts.

Remember that the 220-age thing is just a rough guideline! (and I vaguely seem to remember hearing that it's for people who don't exercise, but I can't point to the source of that).

You can also try 211-Age/2 (for fit women), or get as complex as:
* Use the Miller formula of MHR=217 - (0.85 × age) to calculate MHR
* Subtract 3 beats for elite athletes under 30
* Add 2 beats for 50 year old elite athletes
* Add 4 beats for 55+ year old elite athletes
* Use this MHR value for running training
* Subtract 3 beats for rowing training
* Subtract 5 beats for bicycle training

So, er, what? The third option, and the one I'm most fond of, is to just keep track of your workouts, and use your own max as your max. (I have seen 212 on mine, so according to the first equation, I should be 8 years old! But also, I hit 212 and I didn't die from it.)

To repeat what others have said: that 100% effort, or YOUR max (not necessarily the calculated one), shouldn't be where you hang out, but there's no real danger in hitting it, so long as it's brief. You can hit your real max on intervals, weight lifting sets (but not inbetween), probably your squat thrusts, sprints, maybe a sprint to the top of a hill when a squirrel runs right in front of your wheel... but after hitting that high spot, recover recover recover!

-- gnat! (Just took a VO2max test and has been reading all about this stuff)

[Grog]

... but there's no real danger in hitting it, so long as it's brief.

There's no chance I could hold it for more than a minute or two, I'd pass out if I kept going... or my muscles would not snap!!

[Grog]

I'm concerned that it's not safe, either--after a minute of squat thrusts I'm at my max? A sprint of maybe a 10th of a mile? Can this be healthy?

If you doctor has given you the green light, i.e. you don't have risk factors, your resting HR is under 100, you don't have a family history of heart condition or anything would be indicative of a heart condition, I don't think there would be a problem hitting your max quickly. Of course you would have previously warmed up.

I think a good fitness yardstick is not so much how fast your HR goes up but how fast it goes back down when you enter a recovery phase. As you train, your heart will become faster at adapting to what you're asking it to do: you need it to push a lot of blood and oxygen down to your muscles, it beats fast; you stop running and need less blood, it slows down.

Remember that fitness builds up during recovery...

This being said, I'm no physiologist or cardiologist so this is all based on my experience and readings...

[smilingcat]

There are several other calculations to approximate your maxHR. They all have one thing in common. It IS an approximation of your maxHR. Bigger the numbr or smaller the number does not makes you a better athlete or predispose you to become a great athlete. I think you are born to have your own particular maxHR. I'ver read that as you age, your maxHR do drop. If you are very active, the rate of fall in maxHR is slower than someone who is sedentary. so I wouldn't worry too much about how high/low your maxHR is. Just be mindful of what number you have for your maxHR. FYI, my max HR is still hanging in at 202-204 and has not changed in last 8 years. and I'm past being in the 40's

Your fitness level does not increase your maxHR and likewise, if you become sedentary, your maxHR will not decrease.

There are plenty of maxHR, lactatate threshold discussions and articles... so you might search using google or like.

The other thing that doesn't get mentioned and noticed much is your resting metabolic rate and heart rate. The resting HR I think is just as important as maxHR. If you are out of shape your resting HR is pretty high, whereas if you in good shape/conditioning your HR will be lower.

I suspect that most of us have similar metabolic rate at rest. When we exercise, our metabolic rate increase to meet the demands of the exercise. If your metabolic rate increases by X then you are doing Y amount of exercise. And if you are in good shape, you might be able to increase your metablic rate by 3X maybe 4X. But you can only reach 4X if the demand on your heart is less than the maxHR. And if you can put out 4 times of your resting rate against someone who can only put out 3 times their resting rate, you should outperform the other person. case in point is Miguel Induran (Induran the train 4x TOF champion), Alberto Salazar marthon runner. Both had their resting HR down in the 30's Their HR was much higher than 120s during competition.

FYI my resting HR used to be 52, but today, being out of hape, its up in high 60's. I was much fitter when my rsting rate was 52.

I just can't explain very well today so I give up. make any sense??
smilingcat

[Kano]

*I can go a long time in the 60-80% range, and I'm happy with that. Climbing hills on the bike, though--that really cranks it up and it ticks me off. That's not even standing! I already climb slow, so slowing down more does not appeal to me! Karen

Can't speak to those squat thrust things, and can only say that if I ever said I enjoy sprints, or any kind of running fast, people would have me committed, but climbing on the bike....

I climb pretty slowly too, but I get there, and that's what I think of as the important part. I didn't get there until I discovered that granny gear is my best friend. Until I geared down right away on hills, my heart rate and breathing went crazy, and there was NO way I could climb a hill of any size. It's been a few months -- ski season, doncha know -- but last season I was starting at the bottom of the hill with the granny, and could actually move UP a gear or two now and then while climbing. I'm anticipating starting over on the hills, but maybe it will be a bit easier this year since I've learned some "tricks" that made it possible last year! The breathing is important too. The moment I lose the breathing, that's when everything goes to heck! Give some thought to breathing: sounds silly, but are you remembering to breathe during those squat thrust things and the sprints?

Karen in Boise

[Crankin]

The highest I've seen my HR on the bike is around 165. When I first started spin classes (before I rode outside), I did see 170 once.
Running; I don't do it, but about five years ago I was running and my HR was 180 when I started!