back to the cars thread

[SheFly]

i hear what you guys are saying about your assorted vehicles, and then i check the ratings. The average for the Toyota Sienna, for example, is 19mpg. I live in a city.

We already have a pickup truck that can hold the bikes... and gets crummy mileage.
You just made an excellent argument for me against recumbents!! they're too long to fit into a car.

And Emily, it's not flat HERE

We have considered the Dodge caravan, too, but i really want something LITTLER.

Mimi - I just looked on the Toyota website, and you are right. The mileage listed there for the Sienna STINKS! I've had mine for a year, however, and am vigilant about checking the mileage on every fill up. Worst I have had was around 22 mpg, but I have also hit almost 30. Thus, the lifetime average of 24.5. It is not flat here either, and I drive this up to our Maine house on a regular basis, and to ALL of our races.

I bet it would even hold 'bents - I know it will take the two tandems...

SheFly

[Blueberry]

CA -- I noticed we got MUCH better gas mileage in my Element down in Florida (vacationing), because it's flat. I couldn't believe it. Instead of ~300 miles on a tank of gas, we were getting like 350 to 375. So terrain can make a difference. I have the '04 automatic.

I think even here in NC I get more like 23-25 mph, tho, so I am surprised you get even lower in a manual. Most of my driving is on the highway to and from work, tho, so that helps. Not much stop-start driving. Do you have a roof rack? That will hurt you. We have one, but only install it when we need to haul kayaks. Most of the time, greenie's sleek on top.

Emily

We have the cross bars (factory), but I don't recall that the mileage was any better before we had them installed. We don't leave the kayak holders on unless we have kayaks on top (and then we get about 14-15 mpg). We still got 21 on our trip to DC last winter (that's not as flat as Florida, but it's not a hilly drive either). Very strange. We're averaging 260 to a tank, which gets *really* annoying.

[Thorn]

We were down at SouthCenter the other day so we checked out the new Smart Car dealership. Though I'm dissapointed that the US versions of this car *do not* have the high efficiency Mercedez Benz engines in them, nor do they have the 60 mpg diesel option here, they still do get 30 mpg city

Wait a minute....30mpg city? My Civic Hatch beat that 15 years ago. So, if they don't have the high efficiency engine, why buy one? Looks alone? Sigh...perhaps, when they imported it the should have renamed it from the "Smart Car" to the "Just Average, but Cute". Does the international market really think Americans are all superficial, no substance?

[KnottedYet]

Wait a minute....30mpg city? My Civic Hatch beat that 15 years ago. So, if they don't have the high efficiency engine, why buy one? Looks alone? Sigh...perhaps, when they imported it the should have renamed it from the "Smart Car" to the "Just Average, but Cute". Does the international market really think Americans are all superficial, no substance?

I don't think it's the international market keeping the fuel efficient goodies from coming in. We also have trouble getting the efficient engines in our "own" cars. (we can't get the Ford Focus diesel that's so popular in Europe, no matter how much my dealer tried.) Too many protections for the oil lobby gangs right here in the US keeping the goodies out.

[mtbdarby]

Mimi - I could stand my bikes up in my Honda Pilot but it only got low 20's for mileage. Right now I'm looking at an '04 Pontiac Aztek AWD which gets high 20's. I haven't tried to fit my bike in it but the back seats fold down and the trunk is deep so I doubt I'd have a problem either way. Decisions, decisions.

How long will it take for the adjuster to get back to me on my vehicle?? I want to get this cleared up so I can get another car.

[mimitabby]

I love smart cars! the reason why they had to "dumb them down" so to speak was because of our fuel emission standards. The wise folks that imported them also figured they'd make more money selling the more luxurious models of the Smart cars than they would by selling the economical ones (like the ones they sell in Canada!!!) So it's a pretty pricy little car. Our Canadian neighbors have access to a much nicer range of vehicles.

As Thorn said, Honda Civic had that beat 15 years ago.
Yes, that's MY car, a 1991 Honda Civic. (the one that just got smushed) It gets GREAT mileage. Even if I eliminate the requirement of being big enough to comfortably fit bikes, it is really hard to find a replacement for it for under $15,000!!!!

[KnottedYet]

When I was with my ex in Germany a few years ago, her cousin was talking about how they have to upgrade the emissions systems in US cars that come in to Germany. (He wanted to import a new Ford something-or-another) He's an engineer, so I believed him. I'd heard the thing about how we can't get fuel efficient cars here because of the emissions, too... but from the man-on-the-street it sounds like they're more strict there than here.

The Ford Model T got 25 mpg. I can't believe that a hundred years later we can't do much much better! (Hey, somebody link the article in the Seattle Times last week about the car made for a competition in 1970's that got 376 mpg and would get 174 mpg when street legal for 4 passengers)

Edit: I just searched the Times and can't find it...

[7rider]

I don't think it's the oil lobby that keeps diesels out of the U.S.
I think it's a factor of a few things:
1. Americans have awful memories of those loud, stinking, smoke belching diesels of the early '80s and can't get past that. My friend's parents had 2 Oldsmobile diesels in the early 80s...and I remember how dreadful those things were...not to mention having to go out early in the morning on a freezing morning to warm up the glow plugs just so you could start the thing up. Not very practical.
2. Environmental restrictions. Only more recent diesels are clean enough.
3. Availability of diesel at the pump. I could be wrong, but I don't think every corner gas station has diesel...but yeah, that is changing.
4. Marketing. The need to get folks beyond 1-3.
But, jeez....you'd think that with the junk-food scarfing American public...tell them that the exhaust of bio-diesel smells like french fries vs. well..diesel...you'd think they'd be breaking down the doors to get one.
I had a 1990 Civic, and that thing got 40 mpg on the highway. The 5-speed helps, of course, but yeah...how come we can't do better nearly 20 years later??

[KnottedYet]

I test drove a Volkswagen Golf/Rabbit TDI (diesel). Loved the torque produced by that engine! Zoomed up a hill that my old car couldn't manage above a walking pace.

Wasn't quite roomy enough for a bike *and* stuff, and my mechanic said that VW still required a lot of repairs. But he loved the 4 he owned. (these car guys, man, they have cars like we have bikes!)

My SIL gets 54 mpg with biodiesel in her VW Jetta. I think she said she gets mid-40's with dino-diesel. No room for a bike in that though, unless in the back seat.

If it gets to the US, I gotta check out one of these: http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...s/4219904.html Volkswagen Polo, 70 mpg.

[Aggie_Ama]

In Texas diesel is readily available at most gas stations due to the diesel pick-ups. However, most dealers carry very few of the available diesel cars. I think the assumption is Texans only want diesel trucks, but I would gladly drive a diesel car if it were quiet enough and held what I wanted. I have sat next to a diesel VW at lights and not heard anything.

[IFjane]

IFJane - How do you get 28-30 on your Element???

Mine has *never* seen more than 21. I still love it (and the ability to fit the bikes in is great... but the gas mileage sucks! Mine's a 2005 5 speed.

CA

Carrie - I have no idea why it is so good when others are not. We live up next to the BR Mountains so we definitely do not drive on mostly flat roads. My Element is an automatic.

I used to regularly drive my truck 5 - 10 mph over the speed limit and for some reason after I got the Element I try not to exceed the speed limit at all. I live in the boonies and we tend to drive slowly on our back roads. My house is a mile from a paved road so the first/last mile of my commute average about 10 mph. That probably helps!

[Starfish]

I can't help but think the Element mileage is better at slower speeds, even in town or on hills, simply because of the aerodynamics. Think about how exponentially more we have to work to ride our bikes to go from 22 to 25mph, for instance...aerodynamics are more important the faster you go...

Note about the mattress for the element...check out Costco, and also that element owner's forum link I posted earlier...there was a great folding mattress thing that looked great, and that was at Costco. all reports are that it is more comfy than air mattress. I personally dislike air mattresses...much prefer a single futon.

[smilingcat]

I was so excited to see the smart car. then I was soo bummed about the gas milage?? I think I'm going to save for prius or civic hybrid.

I wish smart car could get 50mpg and cost that base cost of around $12,000.

But, I'm still going to take a look at smart car. Why can't I get a car with 60MPG. I don't care for 0 to 60 in 4 seconds or whatever but only gets 10MPG.

isn't mini diesel supposed to get good milage too?

smilingcat

[Blueberry]

IFJane-

It may be speeds. My commute is 70mph or you get run over But there is something about the E - it has slowed me down too. I just don't feel like hurrying - which is a good thing

It's nice to know there's hope Although, I wonder if the manual is geared for sport more than the auto, and therefore might get worse gas mileage....it's just a guess

CA

[jobob]

These folks manage to fit a tandem into a Honda Fit:

http://www.blayleys.com/articles/cars/index.htm