Weight training - useful or not?

[VeloVT]

eek! Just read through the old thread and it's amazing how protective people get of their opinions. (I'm sure I'm guilty of this on occasion too, of course).

I can't answer the specific question you ask.

I can say though, that I do find weight training to be helpful for both running and cycling. Many of the arguments AGAINST weight training in that thread could be plausibly made against including weights in training for endurance running, and yet in my experience it really helps my running, and I'm doing strictly distance running. I find that when I lift consistently, I can tackle fairly steep hills without breaking pace much -- that extra power is as important as aerobic fitness. Or perhaps more clearly, muscular power is as much of a limiting factor as aerobic fitness, at least for me when I'm trying to run up hills . (The lifting I do, when I do it, focuses on power rather than endurance, so few reps + heavy weights, but I haven't experimented with "explosive" lifts so I can't comment on that, although it makes intuitive sense to me).

I think the same applies to cycling. Of course this is a great oversimplification of "training metrics", and I'm not claiming a preponderance of scientific evidence backs this view (although I don't think there is a preponderance against it either). I'm just sharing my personal experience.

Good luck!

Oh just one more thing -- I would want to take an "explosive" program really slow at first, to make sure all of the supporting/stabilizing muscles were conditioned and up to the task before putting a lot of new kinds of forces on them.

[OakLeaf]

I'm not an exercise physiologist either - but as a group fitness instructor, I don't think I would advise anyone to attempt that type of workout without direct coaching. I think it can be done safely, but not based on text advice over the Internet. There's a huge chance of injury. You might want to look into kettlebells (also with direct coaching).

PS when I returned to cycling three years ago after a 10 year absence, I am positive that the strength training I'd been doing is what allowed me to jump in and hang with some moderately advanced riders. My terrain is similar to Indy's - the hills aren't high, but for that very reason the engineers don't bother to put a grade on them - trucks can climb them without burning out their engines. As for cyclists, it sometimes takes all my strength to turn over the pedals, and no one can convince me that super-slow 220-lb leg presses don't help with that.

[traveller_62]

Indysteel,
thanks for the pointer to the previous post. There was a reference in that thread that led me to a Master's thesis entitled "Ballistic Training: The Effectiveness of Maximal Power Training on Physical Performance" that has some interesting stuff in it. It doesn't answer my question exactly but it was still interesting. One of the conclusions of the research relative to cycling was that for maximum benefit of ballistic training as a means to improve cycling there needs to be a period of strength training prior to the ballistic (power training) phase....which leads to a thanks to....

Liza..because your point about needing to first strengthen connective tissue and stablizing muscles before lifting heavier weights or moving into some kind of power training is often overlooked. I completely agree with you that performing any kind of "ballistic" movement right off the bat is a recipe for disaster.

OakLeaf you also bring up a good point about getting coaching from an experienced trainer before doing stuff like this.

I'm still really interested in finding out more about the specific physiological responses to ballistic training (in terms of the types of muscle fibers that are recruited) so my search continues.....unfortunately I'm finding most exercies physiology studies are done with young folks (20 somethings) and probably the response in middle age people like myself will be different.

[VeloVT]

I have a good book on plyometrics called "High Powered Plyometrics" by James Radcliffe and Robert Farentinos. (Sounds a little obscure but should be available at your local Borders or Barnes & Noble). In addition to pictures and descriptions of various exercises and exercise progressions, there are detailed sections on the "science" behind plyometrics and how one should approach periodization, etc. I bought it because I saw it recommended in a number of running books by seemingly reputable folks (Alberto Salazar, etc). I know you're not looking specifically at plyometrics, but it might be worth a look for background info.

I read somewhere that in the Soviet Union, when plyometrics were first being used in a systematic way, athletes weren't permitted to start plyometric training until they could squat 1.5 times body weight (which I always interpreted to mean that a 120lb woman would need to squat with a bar loaded with 180 lbs). I don't think this guideline is followed anymore, but it does suggest that one should not underestimate the stress plyometrics can put on the body.

[han-grrl]

I know there are so many arguments for an against.

Here is my own experience and observations, based on my clients, who are relatively fit, but trying to train for riding stronger and racing...mountain bike mostly, yes i know, not the same as road, but fitness is fitness and these clients were using road riding for cross training.

I noticed that when they were consistent with their training, they could ride better and stronger. When they stopped their training, they tended to get lots of minor injuries. My own opinion - they are MOSTLY fit, but certainly not any where near elite level. They kept thinking that riding more and more would make them better riders, but inherent weaknesses would creep up and prevent huge improvements.

Plyometrics requires a HUGE amount of core stability. Most people don't have this. I think most people would benefit MORE from a good core program, than plyos.

Be well

H

[traveller_62]

Plyometrics requires a HUGE amount of core stability. Most people don't have this. I think most people would benefit MORE from a good core program, than plyos.

H- I think this is very true. I was able to climb Mt. Washington in N.H. four times last summer (all of the races up the mountain were cancelled last year because of weather --but there were still opportunities to ride up for fun). What I noticed was that my muscle strength per se was not a limiting factor in how fast I could climb...it was my lower back and my core region in general that seemed to limit my ability to turn over the pedals at the cadence I was seeking. So I've been working hard this winter to build and maintain a much stronger core and this work (plus yoga) is far more important to my training program this year than is any of the weight lifting.

[Andrea]

I have a masters in this stuff

Research, as usual, is very mixed, but it seems that there are a few things that seem to really stick out:
1. Most of the time, an effective weight training program improves performance in any sport, including cycling (that takes us to #2).
2. Most of the available research that says weight training doesn't work for cycling has a severe flaws in their training programs (poor program design, no progression, too short, unsupervised, etc.)
3. Choice of subjects has an effect on the outcome: The biggest improvements are seen in people who are either novices and/or of below average strength. A research study using highly trained subjects may not see statistically significant differences in cycling ability. (caveat- as we all know, sometimes the difference between 1st & 2nd place isn't statistically significant, either!)

So, what does this mean?
1. You should lift weights
2. You need an effective training program. My advice would be to talk to someone with a CSCS (certified strength and conditioning specialist) certification. NOT your run-of-the-mill personal trainer, and NOT a cycling coach (even if they're awesome for training you on your bike, you need to talk to someone who is trained in strength and conditioning for sport). A CSCS will prescribe the right amounts of strength and power exercises at the right times in order to maximize your performance.
3. If you are generally a bit weak or haven't been training for long, you're going to see bigger improvements than if you are a very seasoned rider (see caveat above, though).

Weight training improves cycling (and running) in a couple of ways. The obvious way is by increasing the ability to produce force. This will have the greatest impact on things like sprinting and climbing. Almost more importantly, strength training makes your movements more efficient. You make the muscle stronger, so each pedal stroke (or stride) requires less physiological effort from your body, conserving energy.

Hopefully this helps. I didn't read the "spirited" discussion posted above because I have probably had the same one with some of my cycling buddies