OT - Politics, Religion... the taboos

[slinkedog]

Okay, I'm chiming in, now. I grew up Catholic, but converted to Protestantism a long time ago. I am one who does not view pedophiles as homosexuals and vice versa.

I have to say that I do feel somewhat sorry for those who perpetrate crimes. We are all operating from some level of damage. Some of us are more damaged than others. Some of the severely damaged can go on to lead very healthy lives. Some cannot. I don't know if that is a matter of choice or a matter of frailty, but I don't think it's up to me to decide that. All who have been hurt have my compassion. Yes, I feel angry when I hear about someone being subjected to violence or abuse. It turns my gut. I do believe there is evil in the world, but I believe it's kind of a trickle-down effect, if that makes any sense at all.

This is not to say that I don't think people should be held responsible for their actions. We most certainly should be. However, I still feel badly for everyone involved. And I am thankful for the grace that has been bestown upon me by others all my life. I've needed all of it that I've gotten and then some!!

[Veronica]

And I am thankful for the grace that has been bestown upon me by others all my life.

I like that. It just struck a chord for some reason. Me - I thank god - or whoever is in charge - that I have it so good. I don't know how I got to this place, or if I deserve it, but I'm awfully thankful to be here.

V.

[slinkedog]

I like that. It just struck a chord for some reason. Me - I thank god - or whoever is in charge - that I have it so good. I don't know how I got to this place, or if I deserve it, but I'm awfully thankful to be here.

V.

Well said, V.

[spazzdog]

I hear you... I thank the gods that I am only a little crazy when I see what all the other crazies are doing.

As to molestation/rape not being about sex, I agree. It's all about power, control, intimidation.

I'm kind of "show no mercy" on the punishment of these folks though. That goes for priests, doctors lawyers, indian chiefs or Cardinals of the church. Either shoot 'em or throw them into gen pop in a prison sooner than later. Child molesters last about 2 wks in prison, if they're lucky.

spazz

[Trek420]

well said both V and Slink. Both posts remind me of a Carribean family saying from a friend of mine, goes a little something like this "don't envy other peoples burdens because what they carry lightly might break your back".

You never know what others have gone through, though their lives may look charmed or very lucky.

[doc]

Homosexual does not equal pedophile. One is an expression of love/desire between two adults, the other is the crime of rape. And pedophilia happens to boys and girls. Almost always by men. So instead of homosexual = pedophile maybe we should say male = pedophile. Well that sounds ridiculous doesn't it? Because it is!!!

I am straight, and -shhhh don't tell - liberal. Yet I find myself suddenly in the South. Talk about a fish out of water. When I read the newspaper I am frightened every day. The politicians here not only say outrageous religious right ****, but they are proud to say it and face NO Backlash. From anyone!

They regularly say stuff like, "Well they may think homosexuality is ok in NY, but down here we think it's a sin". "And so is nudity". These are real quotes. This whole country voted for the religious right agenda and that scares me too.

Question, how could gay marriage, in any way shape or form, ruin the sanctity of my straight marriage? These people are paranoid, probably closeted homosexuals, and persecuting others in the name of god. That karma is hopefully going to come around and bite them in the ***.

Anyway, thats just my opinion. That and $3.00 will get you something at starbucks.

[MightyMitre]

Here in the UK a woman doctor who worked and lived in a very poor, deprived area had slogans written all over her front door by a raging mob. They thought she was a paedophile. Actually she was a paediatrician.

Education, education, education - that's what's needed.

[Trek420]

doc "Question, how could gay marriage, in any way shape or form, ruin the sanctity of my straight marriage?"

Sanctity? 50% of marriages end in divorce, domestic violence from and to either gender-that ruins the sanctity of marriage, child abuse, reality tv like The Bachelor and Who Wants to Marry a Milionaire? Oh yeah, it's sacred all right.

And stand back, huge generalization here and I'm kidding, and you know my sense of humor by now. I think the gay community should simply bow out of the institution of marriage till we can participate.

We can't do this, ok fine, not helping you either.

A few months of cakes from Walmart, hair from Billy-Bob's house of big hair, dresses from Target, plastic flowers from Longs, catering from ... not that we have an exclusive on these things ;-)

[slinkedog]

Okay, I'll stick my nose in here one more time. I am a Christian and I will tell you there's little that bothers me more than when someone who claims to be a disciple of Jesus Christ uses their belief in him as a reason to be hateful toward others.

The other thing that bothers me a lot is when people demean those who don't agree with them, whether it be in terms of ideology, faith, or lifestyle. I see it on both sides of the coin, conservative and liberal, and it is quite troubling to me. People are different from each other. They have differing beliefs and ways of living their lives. They may be educated or illiterate. They may be wealthy or poor, young or old, gay or straight. When did it become okay to dehumanize people because of where they're at? We're all on our journeys. Can't we love someone even if we don't agree with everything they believe or do?

Okay, there's my 2 cents.

[tatormc]

Slinke, you said exactly what I was thinking but just couldn't figure out how to put it into words. I'm also a Christian and there are lots of things in the world today that I believe are wrong, but I also believe that judging others is wrong. Just because I don't agree with a persons lifestyle doesn't mean I have to discriminate them. I have to love them as Jesus would.

[Trek420]

tatormc & Slinke, you both took the words from my mouth. I'm just a lil' Jewish gal from Petaluma and I don't know anything about religion but my impression from my little knowlege of Christianity that's kinda the whole point.

I can't quote scripture and won't try to but I got the impression "judge not lest ye be...." "let he who is without..." "love the sinner hate the shoes" oops, wrong book on that last one etc.

Fact is most of the worlds great religions have that in common, the Golden Rule.

I kinda like that about your religion! And it seems to me that folks who get that are MORE Christian not less. You want fire and brimstone and eternal pillar of salt that's my folks department.

Well, nuff said, I've gotta find a taxi to Day 1 for a group of riders. I expect when I get back TE will have this whole issue solved along with world peace and global warming.

I've been given some hammer gel, never tried it. I'm told not to change diet or anything before a long ride. Oops, this is the OT thread so can't talk about cycling here like what people think of hammer gel. That would be OT OT.

[CycleGiant3]

I was raised Catholic...majored in guilt! (heard that somewhere thought it was cute) Anyway, I have been hesistent to post my opinion, and that is what it is-- my opinion. I say this because sometimes i go off on little tangents. I do agree with all of you, homosexuals DO NOT in anyway equal pediophiles! I do believe that most all religions (or at least the people practicing them)are judgemental and hypocritical. I think that people pick and choose the pieces of the bible they can use to justify their hate. (not everyone does this, try not to misunderstand my soap box) First, if homosexuality is a sin as some translations in Leviticus claim, then lets refer to some other passages in Leviticus..."you shall not eat pork or shellfish" "women shall not shave thier legs and men their beards" "you can not cut your hair", and the list goes on (You should be stoned to death for most of these infractions). I am not claiming to be a expert on the Bible, religion, or Leviticus, in fact I try to stay as far away from the "saved" as possible. I just bring this up to show how people pick and choose the pieces of the bible they want to in order to justify their hate. So ultimately, we would all be sinners if people weren't pulling what they didnt "agree" with out of the bible and using it aganist everyone else.
"Just because I don't agree with a persons lifestyle doesn't mean I have to discriminate them. I have to love them as Jesus would." This is a quote from the forum that struck a nerve. Homosexuals are not asking anyone to agree with "thier lifestyle." In fact, science has proven it is not a choice. Just like science proved that the sun did not revolve around the earth, but the earth around the sun. Gailieo was almost beheaded for saying that, but got life in prison instead. So off with my head, until I am pardoned. But the bible said it, so it must be true! (sarcasm )
My bottom line is: The God I known is a kind God. He doesn't care what color we are, what size we are, or where we live, who we live with or who we love. I know that the bible was written a VERY LONG time ago, and I think that if they knew all the advancements science has shown parts of the bible to be incorrect, they might have put in foot notes..."oh yeah...it is ok to change with the times." Because loving and treating people, all people, like you would treat yourself was probably the main message they were trying to get across. "Love one another."

[slinkedog]

I do believe that most all religions are judgemental and hypocritical. I think that people pick and choose the pieces of the bible they can use to hate. (not everyone, try not to misunderstand my soap box) First, if homosexuality is a sin, then lets refer to Leviticus..."you shall not eat pork or shellfish" "women shall not shave thier legs and men their beards" "you can not cut your hair", and the list goes on. I am not claiming to be a expert on the Bible, religion, or Leviticus, in fact I try to stay as far away from the "saved" as possible. It just proves my point about picking and choosing the pieces of the bible they decide to hate.

Just like science proved that the sun did not revolve around the earth, but the earth around the sun. Gailieo was almost beheaded for saying that, but got life in prison instead. So off with my head, until I am pardoned. But the bible said it, so it must be true! (sarcasm )

CycleGiant... let me begin here by saying that I totally believe you are entitled to your opinion, and that's what makes America a good place to be, geographically and politically speaking.

However, I have to take exception with what I feel is a gross misrepresentation of Mosaic law, how it pertains to us after the coming of the Christ, and how the different books of the bible hang together. My thoughts on the subject are going off in 12 different directions so let's just suffice it to say that it seems to me that a lot of people judge the bible by the people who claim it as the basis for their belief system, which is a totally reasonable action, imo. I just wish people didn't screw things up so badly, me included.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that God loves each and every one of His children and that we are to treat one another accordingly.

[CycleGiant3]

[QUOTE=slinkedog]I will tell you there's little that bothers me more than when someone who claims to be a disciple of Jesus Christ uses their belief in him as a reason to be hateful toward others.

QUOTE]

Slinke-
This is basically what I meant as well. Additionally, it upsets me when I feel that people use the Bible to justify their hate. You just said it a little better.

[spazzdog]

Preface - I don't care what religion one chooses, be you born into or born again, converted or no religion at all. As long as the interpretation of "God's Word" hasn't been twisted, turned and baked into a crazy cookie, I have no issue.

However, the group from somewhere in ho-dunk America that is traveling around the states protesting this that and the other thing is making me a little tense. Yes, they're geting their bowels in an uproar over gays... but you know what? That's not what bothers me.

What bothers me is the places they are choosing to vomit their bile. First an elementary school because an 8 yr old wrote a paper about Ellen Degenerous (I don't think the paper even mentioned she was gay).

Today or tomorrow these wack jobs will be at the funeral of a fallen soldier (hold on to your keyboards) because they believe 9/11 was gods punishment for Americas support of gays, thus the soldiers are dying to support the "homosexual lifestyle".

Like I said, it's not the gay thing... god knows I've heard worse in my lifetime. What's scary is if you take out the word homosexual and plug in anything else (black, latin, female, jew) you have the makings of some of the worst periods in history... all started by little fanatic cells of people, that grew and grew and grew.

I understand and support freedom of speech and freedom of religion, but there has got to be a way to prevent "inappropriate" locations. I mean, a funeral service is no place for a bunch of yelling, screaming protestors - whatever their platform.

spazz - going for coffee