Puppy advice

[Wahine]

I am contemplating getting a puppy. My last dog was a bullmastiff and he was perfect for me and my lifestyle. There is a reputable breeder close by that currently has a litter. I really want one of these puppies.

The problem is that I am away from home for up to 10 hours in a day. I often get up very early to swim with the masters group, head straight to work and don't get home until 6 or later at night. I train a lot.

This is why a bullmastiff is a good choice for me, they are very low key, sleep all day while your gone and don't go stir crazy.

I know that a puppy requires a lot more time and input. So I'm thinking about trying to set things up so I can bring the puppy to work with me. I am a PT and I could set up a kennel in our gym area. I have 2 concerns, a lot of whining and any detrimental effects from kenneling during the day. I would be able to set my schedule up such that I could spend at least a half hour break in the morning and afternoon with the pup and of course my lunch hour.

I haven't had a puppy before. I have always inherited other people's dogs. That's how I got my last bully. So the whole puppy thing is new.

Any input and advice would be greatly appreciated, especially if you're one of those lucky people that get to take their dog to work.

[mimitabby]

Is there a bull mastiff rescue group? You could get another full grown dog. From our own experience, I would never get another dog unless someone was at home full time. It's just not a fun life for a dog to wait all the time for those precious few moments that you are there. And for a puppy, that would be awful.
However, I do like your idea of taking the dog to work. if you can get away with it; by all means!!!

[Wahine]

There is a bullmastiff rescue group, but they don't typically have a lot of dogs and they are almost never anywhere close to me, making it hard to go see them etc. I have been on the look out for a rescue.

DH is home most of the time, but he says he doesn't want the puppy responsibility so I need to figure out how I can make this work in a worst case scenario situation - ie as if he wasn't available to help at all. Realistically, he'll likely help a lot. But I can't make him want to take care of a puppy, it's not fair IMHO.

The cool thing is that if the puppy is quiet, it could likely stay in our break room, where it would see and interact with people a lot. All the people I work with are dog friendly. It would not be able to stay in the break room if it was disruptive to the calm envirnoment that we try to provide at the clinic.

Input?

[tulip]

Have you considered a cat? With all that time away, a cat seems like a better choice, at least for the puppy.

Would DH really not be available to help out? Seems like it should be a joint decision, though, and if he's not into pups, then there's not going to be much convincing him (unless puppy eyes do it).

[bacarver]

Puppies are cute but they are needy and messy and require attention. Fairness calls for the time and ability to nurture them until they mature and calm down. A puppy that doesn't have an available caregiver can develop behavior problems that are difficult to deal with.

Talk to people who have been through puppy raising. Know what you're getting into.

It is easy to dream of the ideal situation and outcome, but reality has its own agenda.

Thank goodness, however, for animal lovers such as yourself!

Good luck!!

Barb

[mimitabby]

Puppies are cute but they are needy and messy and require attention. Fairness calls for the time and ability to nurture them until they mature and calm down. A puppy that doesn't have an available caregiver can develop behavior problems that are difficult to deal with.

Talk to people who have been through puppy raising. Know what you're getting into.

It is easy to dream of the ideal situation and outcome, but reality has its own agenda.

Thank goodness, however, for animal lovers such as yourself!

Good luck!!

Barb

Yeah, it's a lot like having a baby. If one partner is not really interested, that could be a problem.

[froglegs]

I recommend getting an older dog. If the rescue groups don't have a lot of bull mastiffs, take your time and look other places (shelters, online, etc) until you find one.

I have a boxer that I got off craigslist for $50 when he was 14 months old, from someone who was moving and couldn't take him. He was completely housebroken, good with cats, didn't chew, knew basic commands, and slept all night. I've had him for a year now and he's been a great dog. I am SO glad I didn't get a puppy - my husband and I both work all day and wouldn't have had the time or willingness to properly train and socialize one. An adult dog, we can handle.

[Wahine]

In the past, when I have brought a dog home, DH, (inspite of all his objections prior to), has always ended up being a joint caregiver. I just don't want to have to rely on him. His position right now is "you can have a dog if you do all the work". He is a dog lover, but he's afraid of not being able to go cycling or windsurfing at the drop of a hat.

I love cats too but DH is allergic. I also prefer dogs for the interaction you have in training them etc. I had my last dog trained to do all sorts of tricks, advanced obedience etc. So I'm not afraid to put in the time. In fact, I have a lot of experience training horses and dogs, so I know what's involved there.

It's more the whole puppy issue. The puppy would have an available caregiver through the day if I brought it to work and realistically, probably after a week or so (once the puppy eyes kicked in) DH would likely take over at home, at least part time. He's not working at present but is looking for a parttime job close to home. This is his other concern, how would having a dog affect his ability to look for work. Hence the reason why I would have to have a back-up plan in place.

The other reason for wanting a puppy is to start it's training from scratch. I mentioned that all my other dogs have been adoptees, they trained reasonable well, but it would have been so much easier if I could've started with them before they developed those bad habits. I may also consider training the dog for therapy dog work in the future.

I really appreciate all your input. It's making me think things through which is soooooooo important before you make a decision like this. So please keep it coming!!

[michelem]

Hi Wahine,

We brought our two puppy beagles home over five years ago and they STILL require lots of love and attention! When they were puppies, they needed a lot more . . . remember, they only have puppy-sized bladders, so they need to be taken out about every two hours (max - ideally less than two hours). Keeping them crated any longer than that is bad news. Potty training is very time/labor intensive in the beginning. Now that ours are grown, they are able to stay in their crate for up to 8 hours.

For us, we order our lives around our dogs, not vice-versa. My husband is home with them until about 10am and then puts them in their crate. I go straight home from work and let them out at about 5pm. I don't go anywhere in the evenings until he gets home (anytime between 7pm and 10pm). It is not fair to the dogs to stick them right back in their crate after they've been in there all day just so I can go out and do something. Even if they weren't crated, it's not fair for them to be left alone that much - they are pack animals and their "pack" includes their humans. They are most content when we are all together at the same time.

Summertime is easier because my husband doesn't work in the summer. This way, they dogs are with him all day and I can put them in the crate when I get home from work and go for a bike ride or a jog or whatever. During the winter, I am limited to weekends for those activities. Forget taking the dogs with me on jogs - they are beagles and have to sniff EVERYTHING along the way. My husband takes them for a walk in the morning and I take them for one in the evening.

Hope something works out for you! I tend to think that with your lifestyle you may do better with a grown/trained dog rather than a puppy.


By the way, does your place of employment have OSHA regulations regarding having an animal in the breakroom? This may be something to look into, especially if people eat in there.

[Wahine]

Thanks greatly. A lot of great input. Especially about the break room thing never thought of that!!

[Wahine]

As a result of an interesting twist of fate... one of my clients overheard me discussing the puppy issue at work. Talking about ways to manage proper care if I decided to get one etc. Turns out, this person knows someone with a year old bullmastiff that may need a new home.

So, things may be a little different after all.

[three]

For us, we order our lives around our dogs, not vice-versa.

It is not fair to the dogs to stick them right back in their crate after they've been in there all day just so I can go out and do something. Even if they weren't crated, it's not fair for them to be left alone that much - they are pack animals and their "pack" includes their humans. They are most content when we are all together at the same time.

Very well said Michelem!

Lots of puppy experience here.

As everyone else on here has expressed, puppies take a great amount of time and attention. I second everyone's suggestions that an older dog might be better suited for your lifestyle.

Physiologically, they are not able to fully control their bladder until around 4-6 months of age - which means you'd have to be able to take them outside every couple of hours. And, that 4-6 months of age mark doesn't mean they can hold it for long periods of time - it just means instead of every 2 hours, it's every 3/4 hours.

You mention that the idea of getting a puppy and training them early is appealing. So, please take this into consideration:

Dogs learn through conditioning. If you are keeping your puppy in a crate for extended periods of time where they hear people's voices, or see people walking by - that is what they will become conditioned to. Meaning, when the time came for you to leave the puppy at home in their crate, they will freak out if there aren't people walking by and voices to be heard. Crate-training works because it replicates the idea of a 'den', which is instinctive for dogs. They often feel safer in their crates (it's where my dog goes whenever he's sick or scared). The way you crate-train your puppy is very important because it ties into animal instincts of a 'den' and their sense of safety. I would be concerned about needing to completely re-train your dog once they were older and no longer brought to work everyday. Puppies don't like to be in crates at first, it takes training to get them comfortable. You'd likely be dealing with whining and scratching at the crate door - and again, if people try to calm the puppy in response to the whining...this becomes conditioning behavior (with the potential of teaching the puppy that whining will get them attention...and you can imagine what that will result in).

Plus, puppies are not supposed to be in crates for long periods of time. The behavioral specialist at a nearby Veterinary school (the school is #3 in the nation), stated to me when my dog was a pup that you can only leave them in a crate for one hour per month of their lifespan. 3 months old means no more than 3 hours a day, and so on. With a maxing out of no more than 10 hours a day total (when they are adults) - and required potty breaks at the 8 hour mark.

It put a massive crimp on my finances, but when he was a puppy - I followed the above rules and would take my lunch break at the needed time to run home and un-crate him, I'd then drop him off at a doggy day care and pick him up after work. Eventually, as he got older and was able to stay in the crate longer and longer, I no longer needed the day care - and by then, he was not only used to the crate...but also well socialized with other dogs due to the time at doggy care. He's 7 years old now and though that first year or so was a bit rough, I'm so glad I put the time and effort into it.

Great book: "The Art of Raising a Puppy" by the Monks of New Skeet (if you aren't familiar with them...google them and their center in NY, they are probably the best resource for dog training IMO).

A puppy is cute and adorable and fun, but SO much work. Older dogs can always be re-trained...plus, you get the benefit of getting them when they are old enough to be crate trained in a much shorter span of time and stay in the crate for the full allotment of time, and they don't have to be housebroken. Dogs are amazingly smart and always willing to learn - it's the dedication to proper training and consistency that gets in the way...and that's the human's responsibility, not the dog. If I ever get another dog, I'm not sure I'd ever go through the puppy thing again - much easier to start with them when they're older. Any needed re-training can easily be done over a few months whereas a puppy will need extreme dedication for the first year or so.

Good luck with whatever you do and congratulations on getting a new dog!!!

[sundial]

Wahine, I've had both puppies and adult rescues and it's easier to deal with a dog that is past the chewie/potty stage of puppyhood. I think ideally a large breed that is 1 1/2 yrs to 2 years is still young enough, but able to be more focused and a little mellowed. Your mastiff won't be fully matured until 2 1/2 to 3 yrs of age.

Have you considered looking into a doggie daycare? One of my friends took her pooch to one that had a webcam set up and she could log in throughout the day to check on her dog. The daycare not only provided socialization, but exercise and snacks as well. Her dog came home happy and exhausted and couldn't wait to go back the next day!

As with any daycare, you'll want to take your time and research them. Check with your veterinarian or groomer who she would recommend. I would make sure the daycare put like sized dogs with similar temps in the room and that a staff member should constantly watch them and interact with them. Also, many daycares will want the dogs treated for kennel cough as well as being current on shots and altered.

Good luck and when you get that baby mastiff, we'll be eagerly awaiting puppy pics.

[Wahine]

Thank you all so much for your input.

I am very familiar with behavioural training methods but I am so glad that Three brought up the point of the puppy getting used to seeing people all the time even when it was crated. I do have a quiet place at work that I could crate a puppy and take it outside frequently. My appointments run 1 hour max so it's just a matter of making sure the breaks are worked in if needed.

My work day is maximum 7 hours during which the dog would have to be crated, most days it's less (4 or 5). But that's still obviously too long for a puppy. I was planning on working half time for awhile when we first got the puppy.

My last "rescue" the other bullmastiff was very trainable at 4 years old. The dog before that, not so much, but she was a hound and hounds are notorious for being difficult to train. It also didn't help that DH was less than consistent with her. Aside - this is actually really funny because he is a behavioral scientist by training and teaches parenting classes based on behaviorism, but when it came to the dog... it all went out the window.

So I want to say thanks again for all the input. Unless DH changes his mind, I think I'm going to leave things as is for now and see what happens with this other dog that may need a home. Something will work out. I just want another bully soooo badly and age is a factor for me. I lost my last dog way to soon after getting him.

[Trek420]

Wahine, I think you and DH would make a great Dog mom & dad.

I highly encourage a rescue or adult dog. For one thing you are saving a life and you know what you're getting; shy dog, outgoing, energy level ... it's all there.

From there training and care is needed. I've read a saying "We get the dog we deserve" so it's a lot of work. But your dog's a learning machine and oh it's nice when training works. And it is fun on both ends of the leash.

But it is a huge lifestyle change. There are many things I don't do because of my mutt. Your dog wants to be with you, for most dogs that's always.

We work, have our friends, hobbies .... your dog has you. A tired dog means a happier less stressed dog so the morning swim or ride? It may need to be the morning loooooooong walk with the dog or run.

I "got custody" of the dog in a break up but then Mae had bonded with me and not with my ex who'd wanted the dog in the first place. But at most if I'd left the mutt with her, Mae would be a backyard dog. It's been hard but with me she's had a good life .

I've never regretted it.