So MANY questions

[Lynne]

Ok, I've had 5 months experience under my belt now, been reading the forum and trying to learn what I can from the postings and from experience. This is a great site, btw...the best I've found for new riders.

#1-building muscle: now 5 mos in the saddle and we've figured I'm a distance person...I've done 47 miles essentiallly on a flat out and 44 miles w/what *I* call hills just yesterday. I was completely exhausted on the hills, but can still really crank it out on a flat out (I even start to recover from the hills *while* doing a flat out). I'm breathing like a lung is about to come out on the hills, but then I recover so quickly. I'm assuming I don't have the muscle mass to push up the hills? But how do you get that...my partner says I need to do weights. But if you ride every other day and do weights every other day, your legs never have time to recover. He doesn't think doing the hills is really building. So, what do I do?

#2-hills vs. flat out: we have a bit of an argument going on. Anyone from the Portland area who knows the west hills area? What exactly *IS* considered a hill? I thought Vista and all the connecting roads are basically hills. My partner pretty much just considers Vista the hill, the others are just a "ride". I'm frustrated because I really feel I'm having to push hard to get around the connecting roads and it all feels like hills to me. But maybe I'm just really too much lacking muscle and these are really just a regular ride? I swear, I'm really really having to work to get through these routes, and I'm concerned at my lack of progress if I haven't even really done hills yet (still getting ready for Cycle Oregon on 9/10/05, average of 70 mile days).

#3-endurance: I've only ridden w/my male partner, so I have no basis for understanding male/female differences. I know I'm new, so that will account for a lot, but I seem to be most naturally comfortable pumping at what he calls a low cadence and a high gear on a flat out. I love getting speed and pushing hard on flat outs, and I can get cruising pretty good. I look at him, and he looks like he's just pedaling his butt off. I try that, and I feel like I'm bouncing up and down in the saddle. I know low cadence/high gear can cause knee problems. Also, not only don't I get hungry when I do flat outs, but I also don't get any extra energy by eating something like a power bar, typically (unless I actually *feel* tired). So, I'm eating before I'm hungry, it's not really doing anything. Is it possible that flat out and distance are natural for me and I burn my body fat more efficiently? (this question doesn't look right, but I can't think of a better way to express it; maybe with questions I can clarify)

Thanks-sorry for the long post! So many more questions....

[Grog]

Hello Lynne,

I think you should be reading the threads about knees (there are a couple in both the Open Topic and the New Riders sections) because the mashing/spinning discussion has been going on for a couple of weeks. Grosso modo, three things, not necessarily in the order you asked:

1) Hills are a little bit of a different exercise. It takes practice, and spinning (see #2). I have no idea about the normalcy of Oregon hills, though! (But I wish I did.) Once you discover your hill momentum, you'll crave for them, trust me. So you don't necessarily need to muscle up off the saddle... At least not for now.

2) You MUST spin, even though it feels more "normal" to push harder in higher gear. This will protect your knees and when you get it right you'll realize you'll be faster while spinning. I'm afraid this has nothing to do with men/women differences... I had very strong leg muscles but lesser cardio power when I started cycling so I did just like you (supposedly most newbies do it). But I'm working on my spin, getting faster and I can ride longer too. You have to get in a gear low enough but not so low that you will be bouncing on your saddle. Search the forums with the keyword "cadence" for more information, perhaps... Also check out pedaling techniques (circle vs. square) If you must pedal 70 miles a day for a couple of days, you'll need those knees and legs in general...

[I confess to pushing in higher gear when commuting to work - just 2 miles one-way though. I use a different bike than my road bike, MUCH heavier (about twice the weight!), and I kind of like the limousine feeling it gives me to be pedalling slow but powerfully (yet not so powerfully that I'll sweat on my way to the office). But when I switch to my fast bike I try real hard to keep my cadence in the 70-90 rpm range... Different context, different needs I guess. I wouldn't pedal like this on a long distance anymore...]

3) Eat before you're hungry. If you go out for a long ride, take a bite every 15 minutes or so. Following someone's advice on this forum (whoever you are, thanks!) I have discovered Fig Newtons and find them the perfect bite-size snack, plus they're good (taste + nutrition). (Same with water, by the way... Don't wait until you're thirsty to eat.) Check out the nutrition forum....

There are a couple of good books for cycling, including the Bicycle magazine series (Ed Pavelka I think is the author). You can also search for "book" as a keyword on this forum...

Good luck with the learning of new skills. Many of us on this forum - and above all myself - are not very experienced riders but this place is a great way to learn and have fun at the same time.

Enjoy!

[singletrackmind]

I'm one of those low cadence smasher girls too, about 60-75 rpm. I read somewhere that I'm more comfortable slow because I'm not as aerobically fit as I could be. I dunno, it's how I ride and how I raced. Since I want to keep my knees in some kind of functionality I have been working on my peddaling technique, making it more round and that seems to be bringing my cadence up, too. I do notice that I am more likely to shift to an easier gear now when my legs say to, not that I've ever noticed knee pain specifically.

Could saddle height have something to do with the bouncing, if you are already peddalling a nice smooth circle?

Just a work in progress!

[slinkedog]

I am a spinner because my husband gets on my case if I grind. When I first started riding it was my natural inclination to grind, and boy did my knees let me know it was not a good thing. I think singletrack has it right in that spinning at a higher cadence takes better aerobic fitness than grinding, although on a hill, it doesn't seem to make much difference... I'm still huffing and puffing either way. But spinning really is best for your body. You'll if you get OLN that all those guys in the Tour and the classics spin. Their cadence is always high.

Weights will definitely help. I know BikeGoddess has a whole weight training program that she says has really helped her. Maybe you could PM her and she could give you some help in that area.

As far as what is a hill... I don't know your area and can't really tell you. But around here, if it's a 3 or 4% grade or more and goes on for at least a half mile, I consider it a hill. Anything less than that is rollers to me.

As for the other stuff... I can't help ya. But welcome to TE and have fun riding!! It's great to have you here!

[MightyMitre]

Hi Lynne - sounds like you've been having fun on your bike.

From your post there's so many things in there that really ring bells with when I first started out - going well on the flat, finding hills/ non-flat v. hard going and getting hungry, not to mention the big gear thing.

What I've noticed from my own riding is that if I have any time off the bike , or seriously reduced riding, like over the winter, it's my fitness on the hills that goes first. I can still tap along nicely on the flat but throw in a slope and I'm gasping! Basically the more you ride, the fitter you'll get and the easier the slopes will become. Sounds like you've been doing some good distance rides already.

Have you got any sloping, non - flat stuff near you? Even if it's only a small section? If so, then try riding it as often as you can and each week keep a note on how you're doing. In a matter of weeks you'll be amazed at what you can do.

There are few slopes/ mounds round where I ride - like the crossing up and over a main road - which I used to find tricky when I started but now I barely notice them.

Keep at it Lynne - sounds like you're doing great!

BTW - spin those legs. Despite what they'd have you believe knees are delicate little flowers that like to be treated kindly. Look after them and they'll look after you.

Enjoy!

[yellow]

(Please no one take offense to this...) and realize that you are getting a bit of a "jump" by riding with a guy, who is stronger simply because he is a guy. When I first started riding, I was riding with guys only and couldn't figure out what was wrong with me...until I rode with a mixed group and found myself able to keep up with the group. The guys I rode (and still ride) with push themselves to make sure I push myself, which I really appreciate. It's made me a stronger rider. I ride with some strong women riders as well, and my one most frequent woman buddy rider agrees that when both of us ride with the stronger men, we ride harder. SO you actually may ALREADY be pretty strong, you just don't realize it!

I know what you mean about strength and I am of the belief that yes, it makes a big difference. I don't have access to real weights so I concentrate on a few things I can do at home in a short period of time that have most definitely made a difference: push ups (real ones, not the ones with your knees on the ground) and "planks" (holding in the "down" pushup position) and wall sits. I try to do 5 sets of 20 pushups and 4-5 wall sits at 2:30 each at least 3 times a week. I used to do a lot of Yoga too but I don't think I'll be able to get back into that until my dog is 4 or 5!

I've really slacked off lately and have noticed a difference, so that alone tells me that I benefit from even that small amount of strength training.

And finally, hills. Since I live in hill country I can't shy away from them. I have to love them. I often joke that I have NO IDEA on how to ride the flats, but I think it's true. Think of hills as a way to make you a stronger rider. Plus, you get to rest after the top...you don't get to do that on the flats! Learn to love them and expect/anticipate the benefits they bring--so much of it is mental and not physical.

y

[Lynne]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I did try a higher cadence today..so unnatural, but I will keep trying. The difficulty is that I get a great deal of satisfaction and motivation from pumping hard and feeling my legs really working. But I know it's not worth my knees, so I will keep working for higher cadence.

I do know that a lot of what I'm doing is "newbie" stuff..I hope that over time I naturally learn to stop doing some of what you folks have metioned.

Oh, and I did read all of the posts on cadence and hills.

I like the idea of continuing to ride w/guys because as I've said before, I'm competetive and that motivates me. But I also agree...I am disheartened riding with my guy and need to ride w/women a few times to get some perspective.

So it sounds like most of you agree that my issue is a lack of cardio conditioning and my "strength" being muscle? That would be why I do the low cadence and "push"?

I have been trying to do the west hills in portland during the week. It sounds like just my doing that will continue to condition me...that doing mid-week rides is a good idea.

And for the record, I actually don't hate hills. I'm just frustrated/embarrassed by how difficult I find them. And yes, blasting out and riding fast on a flat out IS way more fun, but the hills are satisfying. Particularly when I notice the next time out that they are just a tiny bit easier.

[AutumnBreez]

Yup, chalk up another newbie with only experience is riding with the guys.

You will get used to the high cadence thing and later will notice a difference, I used to do the same. Low Cadence to keep up, but I am not going to sacrafice myself (knees) for them because I will be the one dealing with the consequences. I am looking forward to moving back to the States and joining a group of women. My DH doesn't seem to get it, but he has always had guys to ride with that are matching to his abilities yet give challenge to each other.
I have gotten to where I would rather ride alone then ride with my husband because he is always ahead and not riding with me, yet I don't want him to be held back on my account. Just easier to ride alone and pace or race my own records. I like to beat my records, higher cadence seems to be making for easier ride and beating my time for the same course.

[Grog]

I didn't like riding with my partner when I started because he has a so much of a better cardio than I do (lots of it has to do with genes, says he). I used to have a cross bike. Now I have this lightweight road bike and I won't let him get one for himself, he's still riding his mountain bike with those big heavy tires. So he'll still be ahead, but close enough to draft me. (But: as I said in another post somewhere he's not that much into riding anymore... that's another story.)

Anyway, I just wanted to say this: when you have just a little time to ride, say 45 minutes including warming up and cooling down, go for hills. I am lucky to live close to a small hill and there's a couple of big bourgeois houses and few cars. The higher I go, the nicer the houses. On top there's a cemetery with a great views, nice quiet pathways and VERY few cars (and slow ones), you can go up and down and up and down again... And if you crash real, real hard on the way down at 50 km/h, you won't have to go a long way to your final resting place......

So, yeah, do hills, get used to them. In a short time, it gives you a great training and builds your confidence too, which is probably the most important thing... At first there were hills I tried to tackle but I would not even build enough speed to actually stay vertical on the bike. Now there becoming kind of doable. There was a thread in April about a "cycling mantra" and some of us suggested a couple of interesting phrases to motivate yourself (such as "this is for your butt, this is for your butt" or something like that ). That helps. Looking at the wheel instead of ahead works for me too...

Enjoy!!

[Allie1DukeFn]

Boy you folks are lucky to have men that push you! My husband is actually the one that convinced me to start riding - even decided that getting me my own bike (instead of riding his old hand me down) would help a lot of the pain I was experiencing. Boy did it! I've only had it a few days but the difference is unreal! The LBS did one of those laser body scan things - and did as much "female" customization as they could since it seems all of the WBS styles are on back order.

Anyway - I digress - my husband is so concerned about me hurting something or getting discouraged - I actually feel like he is holding me back. One of my issues that i have riding is balance - I have problems doing multiple things and still stay steady.....getting a drink, going around someone, looking behind me, etc. We have about a 1 mile stretch we have to ride on a fairly high traffic road - so we usually ride single file. I HATE it when he ends up in front of me because he rides slow to try to make sure I can keep up, but I feel like I can be going so much faster than the pace he is setting, but because of my balance issues and the traffic on the road - I can't get around him. Grrrr. I know he could blow me away if he really let loose, but there has to be some kind of happy medium! I know he does it out of love - but it is so frustrating!

[KSH]

One of my issues that i have riding is balance - I have problems doing multiple things and still stay steady.....getting a drink, going around someone, looking behind me, etc.

I think everyone has this issue when they start riding. If you want water while riding, but don't feel secure reaching down, get a camelback for water.

We have about a 1 mile stretch we have to ride on a fairly high traffic road - so we usually ride single file. I HATE it when he ends up in front of me because he rides slow to try to make sure I can keep up, but I feel like I can be going so much faster than the pace he is setting, but because of my balance issues and the traffic on the road - I can't get around him. Grrrr. I know he could blow me away if he really let loose, but there has to be some kind of happy medium! I know he does it out of love - but it is so frustrating!

Why not just ask him to go faster? Say, "Hey honey, we are going 13 MPH, but let's up the pace to say, 15 MPH and see how I do." If you both have computers, you can ask him to up the speed according to what the computer says.

Good luck!

[KSH]

I look at him, and he looks like he's just pedaling his butt off. I try that, and I feel like I'm bouncing up and down in the saddle. I know low cadence/high gear can cause knee problems.

It takes practice to find what feels right for you... and yes, it does feel funny at first... and just not *right*.

If you keep working on high candence, you will find what feels best for you.

I know I heard 80-90 candece was *perfect*, but for me, since I have had knee issues from mashing the pedals... 90-110 cadence feels perfect for me.

Keep in mind that the candence that works for you, is not always what works for someone else. But keep at it, and you will find your *groove*. One day it will click and all come together.

[bikerchick68]

Hiya Lynne!

OK... first off I am the same build as you... long distance but suck wind on hills! What I have found is the only way to get strong on hills... is to climb so I found a decent uphill that was a mile long and I'd do intervals on it... up and over, turn around, up and over, turn around... I do some weights but there is nothing that helps your climbing ability like climbing.

the second part of your question is long argued... to me a flat is just that... looks like my dining room table. And what is easy to one person is not easy to another... some "hills" I refer to as a rise... some as rollers (those you can just push over by standing and sprinting) and then there are hills... I consider a hill anything where I have to really gear down and work to get to the top...

as to the cadence thing... you want to be pushing and maintaining speed while spinning some decent circles... the problem with pushing a big gear is that while it feels fine now, you may, in time, blow up your knees. Really MOST of this stuff is unnatural when you're new and takes work.

to me it sounds like you're doing just great! give it time... all of this is a learning curve!!!

[bikerchick68]

Anyway - I digress - my husband is so concerned about me hurting something or getting discouraged - I actually feel like he is holding me back. One of my issues that i have riding is balance - I have problems doing multiple things and still stay steady.....getting a drink, going around someone, looking behind me, etc. We have about a 1 mile stretch we have to ride on a fairly high traffic road - so we usually ride single file. I HATE it when he ends up in front of me because he rides slow to try to make sure I can keep up, but I feel like I can be going so much faster than the pace he is setting, but because of my balance issues and the traffic on the road - I can't get around him. Grrrr. I know he could blow me away if he really let loose, but there has to be some kind of happy medium! I know he does it out of love - but it is so frustrating!

As to being stable... when you get your water bottle out, put your hand in the center of your bars not out at the end... then look down at your bottle and use the other hand to remove... put it back the same way... when I was new I found a flat area, and took my bottle out, put it back, took it out, put it back... etc until I was comfortable doing it. I usually stop pedaling briefly while drinking too... I would consider doing this on your own without the DH... do the same with looking over your shoulder until you can maintain a straight line while doing so...

and yeah, he probably COULD blow ya outta the water, but it's cool that he chooses to ride with you... maybe you could tell him you have a goal on this ride of maintaining 13/14/15mph and have him set the pace... then increase as needed! Also maybe he could get a mirror so he can see if he drops you! That way he can go and know where ya are without riding slow to be sure you can keep up... I know when I ride with "new" people I ALWAYS set a slower pace tho... I don't want to max them out and have them HATE the experience and never want to ride again... it can be tough when you're the stronger rider finding the happy medium... you may have to let him know what it is for you...

[emily_in_nc]

There are advantages to having a cautious husband! Mine tends to push me a bit too much at times. If he sees a rider up ahead, he'll say "C'mon, let's catch him!", and expect me to draft off him FAST to catch up to the other rider. What's an easy-moderate pace for him can be very tough for me! My HR will be 175 while his is more like 140!

But, I guess it does improve my abilities!

Emily