23% Grade - Heart Rate Approaching DEATH - Help???

[Mr. Bloom]

I'm being ficitious, but there's a sincere question here:

Tonight, I did a nearly 19 mile ride to the north side of Bloomington.

Several Weeks ago, I posed a question regarding maximum heart rate in this post.

The general consensus was that although the formulas give guidance, we're all different...but that our heart rate CAN'T go over it's Max...OK, I get this.

But, tonight, I tried the county's toughest hill...peaked at 26% grade.

I only made it 3/4 of the way up. When I saw the painted Dan Henry that indicated the "Puke Zone", I knew I wasn't a pioneer...

But, I had to stop and walk:

My heart rate was 211, grade was 20%+, I was in granny gear and ready to barf (although I didn't)

Although I thought my actual Max was about 185, last weekend, I hit a wall at 195 and then tonight, I hit 211bpm

So, the question is:

• is this a health risk...could I have had a heart attack?
• should I have kept going, or should I have stopped as I did?
• did my heart rate hit a new high because of good fitness or poor fitness (I've not been able to ride much in the last three weeks)?

Is there something else I should be considering?

Here's the chart from my Garmon off Motion Based showing my heart rate and the elevation:



What do you think?

[keeper]

• is this a health risk...could I have had a heart attack?
• should I have kept going, or should I have stopped as I did?
• did my heart rate hit a new high because of good fitness or poor fitness (I've not been able to ride much in the last three weeks)?

I
What do you think?

I have to think back a couple years to when I was a nurse in a cardiac unit

Your max HR is not a real max, but a guideline on how how high you can safely up (generally based on age). The danger of running a really high heart rate is you end up pumping less blood to the body than you do at a lower HR (the heart has less time to fill, so less if pumped out each beat which leads to a lower cardiac output). You can't sustain a really high heart rate for a long time - you'll get light headed and eventually pass out. In theory you could have a 'heart attack' if you have underlaying coronary artery disease (partially blocked arteries that supply blood/oxygen to your heart muscle) and sustained the elevated HR long enough to cause damage to the cardiac muscle (from lack of O2)

You were right to stop when you did, if you pushed on and elevated your heart rate more, or just sustained that HR you would have gotten dizzy, nausea, passed out, etc.

Your body can respond to the same situation in different ways at different times. Depends on what you ate, how you sleep, stress, tired muscles, etc. So it may be due to lack of riding that your HR was higher today, or it may be for some other reason.

[Mr. Bloom]

The danger of running a really high heart rate is you end up pumping less blood to the body than you do at a lower HR (the heart has less time to fill, so less if pumped out each beat which leads to a lower cardiac output).

Wow! I'm 44 years old and had no idea about this!

That puts a lot in perspective for me.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

"Approaching death"???
Call me nuts, but if my heart was pounding that fast and I felt like throwing up.... I would STOP doing what I was doing immediately!

Exercise is good, but is it actually good for you to overstress your heart so much? What if it just quits, what will you do then? (you won't be doing much I'll wager) Is it GOOD for your heart to do this?- I'd really be interested in knowing that- any experts out there?...

[KSH]

"Approaching death"???
Call me nuts, but if my heart was pounding that fast and I felt like throwing up.... I would STOP doing what I was doing immediately!

Exercise is good, but is it actually good for you to overstress your heart so much? What if it just quits, what will you do then? (you won't be doing much I'll wager) Is it GOOD for your heart to do this?- I'd really be interested in knowing that- any experts out there?...

Ah now... feeling like throwing up after a good hard run or ride... is invigorating (?spelling?)!

I always love that feeling after I really push it on a run.

[7rider]

Are you sure that's an accurate reading???
My Garmin is prone to giving me false readings - I've had HR's in the 220 range - I KNOW that's not right. I have a max speed somewhere in my database of 375 mph.
Not sure how you felt vs. other more "normal" high HR readings, but from my experience with Garmin HRM's - including second hand reports from others who term it "junk' - I'd take the outlyer reading with a grain of salt....
Look at the points around it....

[Mr. Bloom]

I have a max speed somewhere in my database of 375 mph.

Wow! You're really good

I really think it was right...I had never felt like that before...

[DarcyInOregon]

I think the Garmin's or any other heart rate machine's false readings are when there is interference, and the cyclist is not going up a killer of a grade. My hunch is the heart rate of 220 was probably accurate, given the circumstances.

Mr. Silver, good for you for getting as far as you did. I am envious. Honest to goodness, I wish I could read a post like this and say, "Huh, I go up 10 miles of 28% grades every day and my heart rate doesn't go past 150." In my dreams, only.

Like Lisa said, stop. Whenever you feel something going wrong, stop.

But gosh, that is brave, to even try a grade that steep. Kudos.

Darcy

[Di bear]

I'm not quite sure how the Garmin works, but I know some HR monitors will figure a heart rate based on the time lapse between two beats. So, your heart beats only twice, and it gets a rate. If you have an arrhythmia, I suppose the Garmin could pick this up and record it (computers don't account for irregular heart rates). I would suggest stopping and manually taking your heart rate.

Maybe you should get set up for an EKG to get a baseline reading.

Also, I honestly feel that your heart rate should not go above 190 or so. There are limits.

[Torrilin]

Basically, you went *splat* on the hill. The idea is to stop just before you hit the nausea point. Then try the same hill on another ride. And another. Keep doing it, and eventually your circulatory system will develop the strength to handle such a steep hill. Your body *will* get the message from just trying once or twice a week.

Pushing to the nausea point means there's good odds of you not thinking straight. Even if it's fine for your body in the abstract, it's a silly thing to do on a road. Bad judgment leads to accidents, whether it comes from alcohol or oxygen deprivation.

[Thorn]

Thanks keeper for the explanation....(and, of course, Mr. Silver for starting the thread). I hit a new high BPM this weekend (the hill only peaked at 19% but in a series of rollers where the longest was 1/2 mile long). I hit the nausea point, but it doesn't sound as bad as Mr. Silver; DH took the route of valor and engaged "La Nona" and got off and walked. Darn...now I found out he probably did the right thing.

[lph]

jumping in late into the max HR discussion: I borrowed a HRM for a couple of weeks, and overshot my formula-calculated "max" immediately. I was then told that the formula was just to give a rough number to work with, because actually measuring your max HR is so uncomfortable - biking up a hill til you almost puke was mentioned - that a lot of people can't be bothered to do so.

Sounds like Mr. Silver just did

[Look]

You know, you can get assessed and find out what your HR max should be and what your "zones" are. My asssessment was called New Leaf but there's others, ask at your health club. Usually they'll cost you although your gym membership may discount it. But I found it truly useful information. For one thing, having never been an athlete I didn't really know how hard to work. And not having an objective standard, I worked according to whatever my inspiration was that day. Once I had something to shoot for, I improved my fitness rapidly and lost weight steadily.

Find an assessment, part with the bucks and make your workouts count!

[GLC1968]

I typed up a reply to this last night and then I lost my connection to TE!


Your true max HR is genetically predetermined and it does not change. That said, the max you determine for sports is, like keeper suggested, a line in the sand over which you shouldn't regularly go. But, it is possible to hit close to your true max in a high stress situatio. From my experience, I seems that it is highly unlikely that your true max is the same as your theoretical max (no matter how you determine it). Based on your description, my guess is that you were very close (if not there) to your true max at 211 bpm. It's not a place at which we want to spend a lot of time...particularly in an uncontrolled environment! As we get in better shape, we develop the ability to work closer and closer to that true max for longer and longer periods of time. But the actual real max number will not change (and somebody correct me if I've read incorrectly on this!).

As an example, my theoretical max is 181 or thereabouts. I've had my max scientifically determined (running on a treadmill) and it came out to 179/180. A few months back when I was doing intervals, I was doing all I could to avoid puking at each of the last few intervals and the highest HR reading I got was 178. While riding my regular rides, including the occasional mountain climb, the highest I've ever seen was 174. My true max is likely about the same as my theoretical one at around 180 or so. Of all the fitness people I know, I've never met anyone who's true max was as close to the 220-age thing as mine. I always thought *I* was the weird one when I couldn't post HR numbers as high as my friends all did!

Anyway, my point is that I'm guessing that your true max is actually somewhere around 211.

And to answer your questions:
Could that cause a heart attack? I don't know. I have no experience with this...
Should you have kept going? No, you were right to stop when you did. Keep working on that hill and eventually you'll be able to do it without getting the HR up that high AND you will eventually get to where you are comfortable sustaining a higher HR for longer periods (probably not THAT high, though).
Is this any indication of your fitness level? Seeing new 'max' numbers? No, not really. I think that being stronger or even well rested might have made you capable of hitting new highs, but your max isn't really changing due to fitness. You are probably getting to the point where your body can work harder than your heart is capable. It takes a certain level of fitness to get to that point.

[batsheva]

the HR on the monitor instantly spiked up and instantly 'recovered' back down-- if it had really hit 211 it would have come down in a curve like the other variations on your graph. it was a misreading, i promise-- i have stared at cardiac monitors in icu for last 18 years fulltime and 211 would not suddenly recover as the graph indicated ever. unless it 'recovered' from 211 to ZERO

bat