Im Lou...

[KSH]

OK, so I read reading a RR on BT today from IMKY this year... and this gal came in at 18 hours... and she GOT A MEDAL??? WTH?

Seriously. I commend her for finishing and not taking the SAG wagon. But they took her timing chip off her on the course and she came in at 1:00 AM. She said when she crossed the finish line she got her medal.

That I don't agree with.

[Running Mommy]

Thank YOU! That is what I'm saying... It just seems like IM is getting "watered down" so to speak. Yes I'm slow. I'm a full value athlete. BUT I never go into a race with a cut off that I'm not sure I could make.
There are certain marathons that I don't run because they have a 6 hour time cut off, and I know I'd be pushing it.
Just like I would never run the Boston marathon on a charity slot. I respect that race too much. I know I'll NEVER be fast enough to qualify, so I respect those who do even more. That race is about qualifying to get in, and the work that runners put into qualifying- or BQing in marathon speak.
And as with what happened in April, I pulled myself off the course because I knew I wouldn't make it in time.
I guess the popularity of IM has made it so that it's on a lot of peoples "to do once before I die list" and the rules are just silly details. "heck, I did the distance, so I'm an Ironman. No matter that I took an hour longer than I was suppose to, they still gave me a medal"...
NO, sorry, you are NOT.
And I blame the race organization for this. THEY should not be giving out medals like that. It smacks those of us who go out there and bust our butts to make it in under 17 in the face. I'm not saying that this person didn't give it their all. But EIGHTEEN hours??!! I'll have to read their RR.

Ok let me edit this to say I just went and read that RR. The lady had a MRSA infection in her hoo haa region (or so it sounded) and raced anyway?? That IMO is just plain DUMB! MRSA can kill you. To go out and do an IM and compromise your system even more?? Yeah I guess you could say she was determined, but I would have pulled the plug. Sometimes Shat happens and you have to DNS. Sucks, but it's life...
And I guess I say kudos for having the moxie to finish, but I stand by my contention that she should not have been given a medal.
I feel for her, really I do. But I know FULL WELL what it feels like to walk past the finishline, hearing Mike Reilly call the kids in, seeing the finishers milling around with their medals, and have to hand in your chip and walk away after 15 hours of fighting the wind, and illness, etc... Yes, sometimes life just SUCKS. But that is what makes us who we are. How we handle our disappointments as well as our triumphs.

[KSH]

Thank YOU! That is what I'm saying... It just seems like IM is getting "watered down" so to speak. Yes I'm slow. I'm a full value athlete. BUT I never go into a race with a cut off that I'm not sure I could make.
There are certain marathons that I don't run because they have a 6 hour time cut off, and I know I'd be pushing it.
Just like I would never run the Boston marathon on a charity slot. I respect that race too much. I know I'll NEVER be fast enough to qualify, so I respect those who do even more. That race is about qualifying to get in, and the work that runners put into qualifying- or BQing in marathon speak.
And as with what happened in April, I pulled myself off the course because I knew I wouldn't make it in time.
I guess the popularity of IM has made it so that it's on a lot of peoples "to do once before I die list" and the rules are just silly details. "heck, I did the distance, so I'm an Ironman. No matter that I took an hour longer than I was suppose to, they still gave me a medal"...
NO, sorry, you are NOT.
And I blame the race organization for this. THEY should not be giving out medals like that. It smacks those of us who go out there and bust our butts to make it in under 17 in the face. I'm not saying that this person didn't give it their all. But EIGHTEEN hours??!! I'll have to read their RR.

Well, this lady did give it her all. But she came in past the cut off (the generous one at that because of the TT start)... and got a medal. That's BS in my book.

If you didn't make it 17 hours, you don't get the medal or the finishers T-Shirt.

BTW- is it normal for you have to buy your finishers T-shirt? They had to buy it for Ketucky.

[Starfish]

I have never done a triathlon. I have little dreams about someday, somehow, doing an IM. I suppose I might be one of those people for whom it is a maybe-once-before-I-die kind of thing rather than a love of triathlons, since I have never done one yet!

But, I think the organizers should respect their own stated time limits for the integrity of the event.

I know that if I am EVER to pull off an IM finish someday, I will have to substantially improve my athleticism and speed, not just my endurance. I am stubborn enough to believe (although you Ironpeople out there might shake your heads at my silliness) that given enough sheer TIME and training hours, I could somehow FINISH the distance if there was no time limit.

But, given that my whole Shasta ride took longer than Wahine's entire IM, I know that as I am now, I am NO WHERE NEAR the fast athlete I would have to be to do the 17 hour limit.

So, to me, the time limit represents something much more amazing than just finishing (although I don't mean to downplay finishing the distance...inasmuch as I have never done it, maybe I am naive to think I could do the distance no matter how long I had).

[Running Mommy]

K- Yeah you usually get a finishers t shirt in one of those drawstring bags, along with the coveted hat that says "Finsher 2007" Or 08,09...
BUT the next morning is when they roll out all the finishers swag at the banquet. IM knows that we like to part with our $$ when it comes to IM branded gear, so they have seized the opportunity. But Lou is a WTC race, not a NA sports race- so who knows?? I did like the horseshoe medal tho. That was cool. I'll admit, I'm a medal ***** I do races JUST because they have cool finishers medals (disney world mary for instance)... Yeah, I can be shallow like that...

Star- the only thing that would stop you from doing an IM with little training, but as many hours as it takes you to complete it IMO would be the swim. You really have to be conditioned to do 2.4 miles in the water.
But as long as you can do a century, you could walk the 26.2 miles afterward. Esp. with the open buffet every mile.
BUT to do it in under 17 hours DOES require training, and lots of it.
And yeah, it would HURT.
I think of all the races I've done over the years the IM is the one race that you can't fake. You either put in the training and finish, or you don't. It's that simple.

[Starfish]

Star- the only thing that would stop you from doing an IM with little training, but as many hours as it takes you to complete it IMO would be the swim. You really have to be conditioned to do 2.4 miles in the water. But as long as you can do a century, you could walk the 26.2 miles afterward. Esp. with the open buffet every mile.

I totally believe you. Actually, I didn't mean doing it with little training. I meant training pretty long and hard...but for endurance, rather than any speed. I used to be a competitive swimmer, so I believe I could do that distance with proper training and OWS coaching. I know I can do the bike distance. I'm guessing I could walk the whole way (not happily, not without pain, probably not without injury). I don't mean this is a foregone conclusion...just that I think I could endurance train enough to somehow struggle through the distance, if everything went just right, someday.

But, all this to make my point: once you add in the time limit...Oh My Gosh...I am not at all sure I could EVER do it, despite the right training program. So, I definitely agree with you...the time limit MEANS SOMETHING!

[KSH]

I totally believe you. Actually, I didn't mean doing it with little training. I meant training pretty long and hard...but for endurance, rather than any speed. I used to be a competitive swimmer, so I believe I could do that distance with proper training and OWS coaching. I know I can do the bike distance. I'm guessing I could walk the whole way (not happily, not without pain, probably not without injury). I don't mean this is a foregone conclusion...just that I think I could endurance train enough to somehow struggle through the distance, if everything went just right, someday.

But, all this to make my point: once you add in the time limit...Oh My Gosh...I am not at all sure I could EVER do it, despite the right training program. So, I definitely agree with you...the time limit MEANS SOMETHING!

Well, I'll all about the endurance and not speed. I have come to the realization that I'll never be fast on the bike and run. Fine. Then I need to be consistent and even and keep going. I can do that.

The time limit does mean something and it should mean becoming and Ironman or not... and the difference between getting a finishers medal or not. We aren't in Pre-K, everyone doesn't need a medal to feel good about themselves.

I realized this morning that some people race an IM to reach a certain time goal... I will be racing against the clock... counting down every minute to ensure that I make it in under 17 hours. Everytime I stop moving is more more minute I add to not finishing. So, even though I won't be placing in my AG, I have to keep moving no matter what.

[Running Mommy]

"I realized this morning that some people race an IM to reach a certain time goal... I will be racing against the clock... counting down every minute to ensure that I make it in under 17 hours. Everytime I stop moving is more more minute I add to not finishing. So, even though I won't be placing in my AG, I have to keep moving no matter what."

Yep! I do the SAME THING! Some people have planned "stops" on the bike, but I don't. I only stop if I absolutely need something- or to go potty. I figure coasting at 10 mph while I fish something out of my bento, or refill a bottle is still faster than stopping. And when I'm on the run if I must walk, then I tell myself to walk with purpose. This year I had someone come by me and say "MAN! You have a fast walk pace!"... Yeah, it's not suppose to be a stroll.
Yes, I'm slow and prolly always will be. I just don't think thick girls are mean't to be fast. At least not THIS thick girl. I've lost 13 lbs in the last five weeks, and while I'm looking better, I'm still thick. Just a smaller version of a stump...
But I do have time goals, and I do try to get faster. I'm starting to see time gains in my riding. Last year I was riding between 15-16 mph average, now I'm at 16-17 mph. Hopefully as the weight disappears the speed will re-appear. But I have no dillusions of pulling off a 5 hour bike split at IMAZ 08.
But dang it if I'm not gonna try.
You know, I think that's the difference between people who "do" an Ironman, and people who ARE (because it's in their dna) an Ironman. An Ironman goes out there and does their very best for that given day. They leave it out on the course.
They respect the race for what it is. And to them, it's not just a fad...

[alpinerabbit]

erm..... amen?

[KSH]

Yep! I do the SAME THING! Some people have planned "stops" on the bike, but I don't. I only stop if I absolutely need something- or to go potty. I figure coasting at 10 mph while I fish something out of my bento, or refill a bottle is still faster than stopping. And when I'm on the run if I must walk, then I tell myself to walk with purpose. This year I had someone come by me and say "MAN! You have a fast walk pace!"... Yeah, it's not suppose to be a stroll.

Yes, I'm slow and prolly always will be. I just don't think thick girls are mean't to be fast. At least not THIS thick girl. I've lost 13 lbs in the last five weeks, and while I'm looking better, I'm still thick. Just a smaller version of a stump...

But I do have time goals, and I do try to get faster. I'm starting to see time gains in my riding. Last year I was riding between 15-16 mph average, now I'm at 16-17 mph. Hopefully as the weight disappears the speed will re-appear. But I have no dillusions of pulling off a 5 hour bike split at IMAZ 08.
But dang it if I'm not gonna try.

You know, I think that's the difference between people who "do" an Ironman, and people who ARE (because it's in their dna) an Ironman. An Ironman goes out there and does their very best for that given day. They leave it out on the course.

They respect the race for what it is. And to them, it's not just a fad...

Well, I do see myself having to get off the bike 2 or 3 times on the course. Quickly, but I will need some rest stops. Honestly, I don't think my back/butt/neck could hold up 112 miles without getting off and stretching. But, I'll have to be quick because 10 minutes too long might mean me not finishing in 17 hours.

You have lost 13 pounds... AWESOME! Congrats!

A 16-17 average is good! And if you can ride 112 miles in training at that pace you can do it on the course too.

I hear ya about respecting the race. I found this post on my other forum to a thread about who signed up for IMKY 08:

I watched the race Sunday and stuck around Monday to register. It looked like an absolute blast. This will be my first IM attempt. To be honest, I've never swam and I start swim lessons next Tuesday. I'm going to signup for a 1/2 IM next July. I've never done a tri as I just started biking this year. There was just way too much energy down there though for me not to give it a shot! See you there!

OK, so this person who has NEVER swam, NEVER done a tri... and who just started biking THIS year... signed up for an IM.

What the heck is this guy thinking? I think he just got caught up in the moment and went with it. But I don't think he respects the distance. It's not as easy as he may have thought it looked.

I guess I also get kind of irked when people don't respect doing tri's in general and show this through haphazard training. You know the ones... "OH! I'm going to do a tri"... but yet they don't train for it. There is a journey to race day. Being a triathlete isn't just racing... it's training too. People who don't think that they need to train... well it kind of disrespects the sport.

[Running Mommy]

Your preaching to the choir girl, preaching to the choir!!

I wrote an email to the guys at Ironmantalk to get their take on it. Hopefully they talk about it in a future podcast.

I guess it's like everything, once it gains popularity it gets watered down.
Thats another reason why the water noodle thing at the danskin races bugs me so much. I'm all for encouraging people to get into the sport. I tend to think of myself as an ambasador. BUT you need to go about it right and do the neccesary training before you even think about plunking down your $$ for a race. Be ready to race. It's a TRIATHLON- a SWIM, BIKE, and RUN.. Done back to back... You need to have those athletic skills to be able to do one.

When I decided I wanted to get into triathlon the first thing I did was sign up for swim lessons at the Y. It wasn't until I could swim 30 laps that I decided I was ready to sign on the dotted line. Am I saying that you need to be perfectly trained and ready to take your AG?? NO. I'm saying you should be able to complete the distances in training, with no real problems, before you toe the line.
And there is NO reason to start with an IM. I know plenty who do. Some actually do pretty good coming out of the gate like that. But I think it's a lot to ask of your body.
I must say that my husband is doing IM next year with very few races under his belt. I wasn't happy about that. But I also know his riding and running base is where it needs to be. So I'm working on the swim componet with him.
I do give him a hard time, and give him the crossways look all the time. I've told him over and over that I don't think he respects the distance. I think sometimes that he thinks "well if Denise can do it. I can".... But Denise has her butt out there training like a mad woman 6 days a week. They forget about that. Oh- and yeah I hear from the sidelines ALL THE TIME "look at her honey. If she can do it. So can you. She's not skinny."
I just want to clock the people that I hear say that. BUT yes, most people CAN do what I do. They just have to put the time and effort into it. I don't have any special talents that only *I* posses. No I have the drive. And that's all you need.

[divingbiker]

There is a journey to race day. Being a triathlete isn't just racing... it's training too. People who don't think that they need to train... well it kind of disrespects the sport.

Though it doesn't even compare to what you ladies do, this is exactly why I didn't do the Irongirl sprint tri this year. I knew I could do the swim and the bike, and I could walk the run, and I would have finished with a slow time. But I hadn't trained and I thought that it was disrespectful to those who did to just show up and go through the motions.

[crazycanuck]

Ummm Last time I checked it was quite a bit of $$$ to enter an IM..You'd think that if you paid that much, you'd train hard in order to finish in the time allotted.

DOn't people know the time limit...

c

[KSH]

Though it doesn't even compare to what you ladies do, this is exactly why I didn't do the Irongirl sprint tri this year. I knew I could do the swim and the bike, and I could walk the run, and I would have finished with a slow time. But I hadn't trained and I thought that it was disrespectful to those who did to just show up and go through the motions.

With that said, I find it perfectly respectable to walk the run if you are the type who just can't run.

But it sounds like you made a sound decision. If you aren't trained and ready it's best not to race.

[silver]

"You know, I think that's the difference between people who "do" an Ironman, and people who ARE (because it's in their dna) an Ironman. An Ironman goes out there and does their very best for that given day. They leave it out on the course.
They respect the race for what it is. And to them, it's not just a fad...

I completely agree with you gals. I do not think that any 17 hour finisher should receive a medal or be considered an Ironman.

I've completed 7 marathons and they were hard, so I have a HUGE respect for you ladies who are Ironmen. And I do not think that anything should water down the distinction.

But I guess I want to say that I think that this was a little hitch in the process here, caused by trying to adapt to the water/current situation. I looked at the results and only 3 people are listed as having a time greater than 17:00. These people know the rules and they know that they are not ironmen. We know they are not. I don't think that it sets a precedent for watering down the Ironman overall.

I've heard this debate to some degree on the marathon side. People taking 8:00 hours to complete a marathon. Did they run a marathon? Do you have to run every step to run a marathon? My fastest marathon was 4:44 and slowest was 5:18. Do I qualify as a marathoner? Would you run the Boston Marathon without qualifying? (just throwing out questions that are raised) There are people who cut marathon courses. But marathons do not have a governing body that was set forth a time limit like the Ironman.

I hope this comment doesnt' offend anyone.....I completely respect the distance and the accomplishment and the rules set forth for it (time limit).