Thanks, Knot, your obnoxious know-it-all-ed-ness is greatly appreciated.

I did check with my lbs about the Surly - I just need to decide if I want to take a risk on ordering a brand I've never seen or tried on for size. Good to know about Trek420's experience. I really wish we had a dealer nearby, so I could see one in person. Based on the specs, and what the Surly person emailed me, I think the 50cm would fit, but that is what my Trek road bike is, so the idea of the Surly running big is frightening. But then, the 46 sounds soooo small. I suppose I could put a 180mm stem on that puppy Do you know if Trek420's bike's standover height measures the same as the spec says?

Or, I could get the Trek, as a "known", or I could do nothing, since DH is still dragging his feet. I can't get anything for a little while, unless the 21" Trek fits, because both are sold out in my size right now. Sounds like the Surly's will be back in September.