reeeeeeaaaaaach...

[madscot13]

93 or 94. I bought it used and have always been wondering. Black quill stem, white handle bar tape, metal lugs, forest green. I think it is 93.

[SadieKate]

http://www.vintage-trek.com/images/trek/94/Trek94.pdf

A 17" 520 had a 54 cm TT - still long.

I agree, Nitto makes some nice stems which would be perfect for this.

Raising the bars doesn't really affect the reach. It affects comfort of your back and neck which may not be a problem once the reach is solved. Typical place for recreational cyclists to start is actually a hair below the saddle and touring bikes about even.

There in Minneapolis you should be able to find a good shop that can help you. Since you've got a challenge getting that bike to fit, get a shop to help you. When you change both the stem and bars, you'll need to change cable length also but it's best not to mess with them until you have the fit dialed. Murphy's Law says that you will then want to raise the bars and the cables will be too short.

Knott, I know you like your high bars but they're the extreme. It may be great for your messed up neck but some of us would absolutely hate that position and find that other things start to hurt because of it. I'd recommend starting at the mid-point for height and solve the reach. Madscot hasn't even mentioned pain, just ackwardness from the reach.

[KnottedYet]

Knott, I know you like your high bars but they're the extreme. It may be great for your messed up neck but some of us would absolutely hate that position and find that other things start to hurt because of it. I'd recommend starting at the mid-point for height and solve the reach. Madscot hasn't even mentioned pain, just ackwardness from the reach.

I never told her to raise her bars. I just told her what I had done.

Just like I told her how I'd changed my reach. Didn't tell her to change her reach to match mine. I just told her what I had done.

Not once, not anywhere, did I tell her to raise her bars. In fact, the FIRST thing I said was to look into a shorter reach stem, just like you did later. She asked about shorter reach stems vs Salsa Short-n-Shallows, and I said changing stems gave me a shorter reach more than changing to Short-n-Shallows.

[SadieKate]

Knotted, madscot kept asking if she should raise her bars and you kept saying where you have yours positioned which implied to me that you were saying yes. If you were not, my apologies but I don't know why otherwise you would keep mentioning the saddle to bar difference.

[KnottedYet]

Knotted, madscot kept asking if she should raise her bars and you kept saying where you have yours positioned which implied to me that you were saying yes. If you were not, my apologies but I don't know why otherwise you would keep mentioning the saddle to bar difference.

I mentioned where mine are positioned once. When I said the bars were now 1 inch or so higher than they had been. Oh, and BY THE WAY, THE REACH IS NOW 30 MM SHORTER AND WOW, THE BARS ARE FEELING REALLY GOOD NOW!!!!!!!!! (as the rest of that post said)

Nifty Nitto, they have many different reaches for many different needs, *and* the quills are a great size that can be adjusted in all kinds of ways for all kinds of bikes/headtube lengths/rider needs. Even to great extreme heights like I prefer to ride (and wow, there is still wiggle room on the Nitto, what a great design), and which I never encouraged anyone to do.

You kept telling her not to raise the bars. I agreed with you. I never told her to raise them.

[madscot13]

I don't have any pain, just a funny feeling, when I ride. I just remember when falling into the drops was a joy, now it is sort off.

I've been considering a bike fit but was thinking of waiting until I purchased a pair of speedplay frogs. So maybe about a year, ahem, tops.

I just have to get past this winter season. I'm a bit unsure about what bike to have in Washington DC. Oh and make some money do splurge on these unnecessary but totally required things.

[SadieKate]

This is a lot of money to spend on this project then! I don't know the Short and Shallows like Knotted does, but there are many bars out there these days with shorter reach, so do your research. I suspect it's going to take bars and stem to get the reach close. That bike is just awfully big.

[madscot13]

That bike is just awfully big.

You are telling me. But it is a beauty and rides really well. It will be an investment.

[Torrilin]

You are telling me. But it is a beauty and rides really well. It will be an investment.

*nod* You may be built more on WSD lines, so it may not be possible to get the frame to perfect. Sad.

The other possibility I see is if you're using a backpack for hauling. I went for my first backpack free grocery run yesterday. With a pack, my back and shoulders are *screaming* within a mile on the way home, with the pain centered where you'd expect it for too much reach. Yesterday? no pain. This was expected, since math says the bike's reach should be fine. Plus, previous pack free rides have been fine (just not real *practical*).

I've replaced the backpack with a pair of $40 Axiom panniers. The sewing and seam taping isn't as solid as my backpack, but my backpack has lasted through 15 years of near daily 30-45lb loads. I think it's ok if the panniers don't last through that . I could have gone cheaper online or with Craigslist, but we decided "support the local bike shop" was higher priority than cheapest panniers possible.

[Trek420]

http://www.vintage-trek.com/images/trek/94/Trek94.pdf

A 17" 520 had a 54 cm TT - still long.

I agree, Nitto makes some nice stems which would be perfect for this.

I'm 5'1" on a tall day I was about to toss my old Trek 420 circa about the same vintage into the Bay. It hurt to ride. My LBS said the frame fit me, I needed WSD or narrower bars.

I think we kept the same stem at first.

Eventually went to Nitto along with shorter crank arms.

So if the height is right and you want shorter reach could the bars do it?

But Dedo WSD (I think they weren't really women specific, just narrower with shorter reach) and Cinnelli purple cow spot bar tape and wow, what a difference.

And only cost about 30'ish as I recall.

I agree since we can't see you I'm sure there's a good shop in the area.

[SadieKate]

Knotted, I thought a bit more about the geometry of a bike and yes, you are correct in that the reach can get shorter when raising the bars – because of the angle of the head tube. Making this simple point would have kept the conversation to a discussion.

I’m being frank and honest because I simply don’t want my statement that “raising the bars doesn't really affect the reach” to stay there and mislead someone. But most of us respond better to the how and why of a result rather than just being battered with it. I apologize for confusing the reach/rise measurement, but I won’t for interpreting your comments about bar height as recommendations for raising the bars above the saddle. I’m not the only one who thought this way; they just didn’t state it publicly on the forum.

So in a reasonable discussion . . . 3 cm seems like a lot of difference so I have to wonder if it was the combo of three things: a shorter stem than was on before, raising the stem and any rise of the stem. Since you used a longer stem (90cm) than the originally requested 80 cm you may have kept the reach the same as that achieved by an 80cm left down at saddle height. We didn’t even discuss stem angles which adds a whole ‘nother degree of complexity to the problem. Traditional old school road bikes always had horizontal stems, so I didn’t even think to go there.

And, on the topic of raising the bars, I always think that such discussions should clearly state the pros and cons: It can solve neck and back pain. It can be more comfortable for some people. But the more upright position can mean loss of power, loss of aerodynamic efficiency and a whole lot more weight on your butt which can be painful to other people. These are personal preferences that are generally dictated both by one’s riding style and by the bike’s geometry. It's a personal choice. I really don’t care if someone wants to have their bars up in the heavens, but they need to know the pros and cons – and it simply wasn’t clear from your posts.

[emily_in_nc]

Yes, that's a big bike for you. I am 5'2.5" with an average size torso, and my road bikes have had top tubes from 19" to 19.5" long (approx. 48.25 to 49.5 cm) with stems in the 6.5 cm (a Terry) to 9 cm (Aegis Swift) range. I also ride Salsa Poco bars. With this setup, I am perfectly comfortable. I test rode a Trek 5200 in a 47 cm size a few years back. It had a 19.7" top tube with a 10 cm stem, and I felt too stretched out. I might have adapted, but why be uncomfortable?

I definitely suggest the shorter stem and Salsa Poco bars, if a new bike is not in order at this point. It's better to start with the proper frame size, but that isn't always possible. Good luck and hope you can get more comfy on your bike!

[Trek420]

Yes, that's a big bike for you. I am 5'2.5" with an average size torso, and my road bikes have had top tubes from 19" to 19.5" long (approx. 48.25 to 49.5 cm) with stems in the 6.5 cm (a Terry) to 9 cm (Aegis Swift) range.

Can you make a bike that's the "wrong" size for you fit? Yes. When my bike's in the shop my LBS loans me a 51 cm bike, waaaay too big for me but he makes it fit with a different stem.

Can a bike that's the "right" size not fit? Sure. Same thing, seatpost length, seat adjustment, bars and lots of chances to go right or wrong.

In Knotts post # 3

I'd be getting a shorter-reach stem before switching h'bars, unless the h'bars you have now are really driving you nuts. I have short-n-shallows, and really they didn't change the reach nearly as much as getting a 2cm less-reach stem did for me.

This is not a recommendation to raise the bars, looks like suggested shorter reach to me.

..... It can solve neck and back pain. It can be more comfortable for some people. But the more upright position can mean loss of power, loss of aerodynamic efficiency and a whole lot more weight on your butt which can be painful to other people. These are personal preferences that are generally dictated both by one’s riding style and by the bike’s geometry. It's a personal choice. I really don’t care if someone wants to have their bars up in the heavens, but they need to know the pros and cons – and it simply wasn’t clear from your posts.

She said her bar height once.

Some may think my bars are "up in the heavens". They were put there by the man whose name goes on the frame. I just went "ok, this is comfy".

I don't know centimeters from centipedes, just feel that:

I'm faster when I'm more comfortable and I'm not real comfortable with the tone of this thread.

[Triskeliongirl]

Another thought are the Eva short reach bar that Mimi put on her new bike. I did have salsa pocos once and while I did like the short reach, I didn't like the ergo bends. I know Mimi loves her Eva bar. I also second the recom. on a nitto technomic stem. And, btw, I think it is silly to argue whether bars should or shouldn't be higher than the saddle. Each body is different. Someone with a short upper body may need that in the context of how the rest of their bike is built relative to their body, to have their body be in the same position (i.e. no more or less upright) than someone with a longer upper body/arms who has their bars below their saddle. Perhaps enlisting the help of a fitter at this time is wise, otherwise you could waste money on the wrong stem, bars, etc.

[emily_in_nc]

Can you make a bike that's the "wrong" size for you fit? Yes. When my bike's in the shop my LBS loans me a 51 cm bike, waaaay too big for me but he makes it fit with a different stem.

Yes, it can be done, but with the caveat that the shorter the stem, the poorer the handling "up front" can be (i.e., more squirrely). I noticed that with my 6.5 cm Terry stem but am fine with a 9 cm stem like on my Aegis Swift. I have read recommendations that going with a stem shorter than 7-8 cm compromises handling. If a 9 cm to 11 cm stem works with your frame, then your frame size is is in the range that's normally recommended as ok for you.