reeeeeeaaaaaach...

[SadieKate]

For a little girl (I'm only 5'4" on a wishful day so I can say that ), that's a long top tube -- about 55 cm. You're probably going to have to change the stem and the bars to the shortest you can -- and you may still have problems and the handling may get odd. If you climb steep hills, you may really notice it.

I ride top tubes of 52.5 to 53 cm for comparison.

Don't raise the bars. Even with the saddle is fine.

[madscot13]

you would know about them hills...

Alright does anyone have a stem recommendation?

[SadieKate]

What year is your Trek 520? I'm doublechecking the geometry.

http://www.vintage-trek.com/TrekBrochures.htm

[madscot13]

93 or 94. I bought it used and have always been wondering. Black quill stem, white handle bar tape, metal lugs, forest green. I think it is 93.

[SadieKate]

http://www.vintage-trek.com/images/trek/94/Trek94.pdf

A 17" 520 had a 54 cm TT - still long.

I agree, Nitto makes some nice stems which would be perfect for this.

Raising the bars doesn't really affect the reach. It affects comfort of your back and neck which may not be a problem once the reach is solved. Typical place for recreational cyclists to start is actually a hair below the saddle and touring bikes about even.

There in Minneapolis you should be able to find a good shop that can help you. Since you've got a challenge getting that bike to fit, get a shop to help you. When you change both the stem and bars, you'll need to change cable length also but it's best not to mess with them until you have the fit dialed. Murphy's Law says that you will then want to raise the bars and the cables will be too short.

Knott, I know you like your high bars but they're the extreme. It may be great for your messed up neck but some of us would absolutely hate that position and find that other things start to hurt because of it. I'd recommend starting at the mid-point for height and solve the reach. Madscot hasn't even mentioned pain, just ackwardness from the reach.

[KnottedYet]

Knott, I know you like your high bars but they're the extreme. It may be great for your messed up neck but some of us would absolutely hate that position and find that other things start to hurt because of it. I'd recommend starting at the mid-point for height and solve the reach. Madscot hasn't even mentioned pain, just ackwardness from the reach.

I never told her to raise her bars. I just told her what I had done.

Just like I told her how I'd changed my reach. Didn't tell her to change her reach to match mine. I just told her what I had done.

Not once, not anywhere, did I tell her to raise her bars. In fact, the FIRST thing I said was to look into a shorter reach stem, just like you did later. She asked about shorter reach stems vs Salsa Short-n-Shallows, and I said changing stems gave me a shorter reach more than changing to Short-n-Shallows.

[SadieKate]

Knotted, madscot kept asking if she should raise her bars and you kept saying where you have yours positioned which implied to me that you were saying yes. If you were not, my apologies but I don't know why otherwise you would keep mentioning the saddle to bar difference.

[madscot13]

I don't have any pain, just a funny feeling, when I ride. I just remember when falling into the drops was a joy, now it is sort off.

I've been considering a bike fit but was thinking of waiting until I purchased a pair of speedplay frogs. So maybe about a year, ahem, tops.

I just have to get past this winter season. I'm a bit unsure about what bike to have in Washington DC. Oh and make some money do splurge on these unnecessary but totally required things.

[SadieKate]

This is a lot of money to spend on this project then! I don't know the Short and Shallows like Knotted does, but there are many bars out there these days with shorter reach, so do your research. I suspect it's going to take bars and stem to get the reach close. That bike is just awfully big.

[Trek420]

http://www.vintage-trek.com/images/trek/94/Trek94.pdf

A 17" 520 had a 54 cm TT - still long.

I agree, Nitto makes some nice stems which would be perfect for this.

I'm 5'1" on a tall day I was about to toss my old Trek 420 circa about the same vintage into the Bay. It hurt to ride. My LBS said the frame fit me, I needed WSD or narrower bars.

I think we kept the same stem at first.

Eventually went to Nitto along with shorter crank arms.

So if the height is right and you want shorter reach could the bars do it?

But Dedo WSD (I think they weren't really women specific, just narrower with shorter reach) and Cinnelli purple cow spot bar tape and wow, what a difference.

And only cost about 30'ish as I recall.

I agree since we can't see you I'm sure there's a good shop in the area.

[SadieKate]

Knotted, I thought a bit more about the geometry of a bike and yes, you are correct in that the reach can get shorter when raising the bars – because of the angle of the head tube. Making this simple point would have kept the conversation to a discussion.

I’m being frank and honest because I simply don’t want my statement that “raising the bars doesn't really affect the reach” to stay there and mislead someone. But most of us respond better to the how and why of a result rather than just being battered with it. I apologize for confusing the reach/rise measurement, but I won’t for interpreting your comments about bar height as recommendations for raising the bars above the saddle. I’m not the only one who thought this way; they just didn’t state it publicly on the forum.

So in a reasonable discussion . . . 3 cm seems like a lot of difference so I have to wonder if it was the combo of three things: a shorter stem than was on before, raising the stem and any rise of the stem. Since you used a longer stem (90cm) than the originally requested 80 cm you may have kept the reach the same as that achieved by an 80cm left down at saddle height. We didn’t even discuss stem angles which adds a whole ‘nother degree of complexity to the problem. Traditional old school road bikes always had horizontal stems, so I didn’t even think to go there.

And, on the topic of raising the bars, I always think that such discussions should clearly state the pros and cons: It can solve neck and back pain. It can be more comfortable for some people. But the more upright position can mean loss of power, loss of aerodynamic efficiency and a whole lot more weight on your butt which can be painful to other people. These are personal preferences that are generally dictated both by one’s riding style and by the bike’s geometry. It's a personal choice. I really don’t care if someone wants to have their bars up in the heavens, but they need to know the pros and cons – and it simply wasn’t clear from your posts.

[KnottedYet]

Nitto makes some very nice quills!

I have a Nitto Technomic. I'm a tall long-armed critter with a torn up neck, and *still* have plenty of room on the Technomic to raise the bars up more if I need to. They come in all kinds of reaches. I wanted to go from a 120mm to a 80mm, but my LBS talked me out of it. Glad they did, cuz the 90mm is just perfect for me.

The Technomic cost me $40. There is also the Deluxe, which is a bit different (a lot shinier for one thing) and I think costs about $15 or $20 more.

They also make a lugged quill, for like $150.... very pretty....

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Madscot,
I am 5'5" tall.
My bike came with a 90mm reach stem. After riding it several months, I found it was too lone for me. I changed to a really short 50mm stem, which I rode for a couple of months. Though it helped my reach issue, I found that it affected my steering badly- my steering was wobbly and annoying.
Then I put on a 70 stem. That eliminated the wobbly steering, and didn't seem to be too long a reach by much. I'll stick with that stem now.
Now in order to attempt to shorten my reach just a bit more, I am about to put on some shorter reach Salsa handlebars, which should not effect my steering like a short stem would.
If you compare the specs on their website, you will see that the Salsa "Poco" bars will shorten your reach substantially more than the Salsa "Short and Shallow" bars. Also the drops are less low down on the Poco than the ShortNShallow's. Measure your shoulders for width. I got the 40cm width alloy Poco bars. We will be putting them on this weekend.

Another thing you might want to try-
I know this sounds counter-intuitive.....but try shoving your saddle as far back as it will go. When I did this (at DH's recommendation) I found my weight was suddenly balanced more over my legs instead of forward so much on my hands- it moved my center of gravity back a bit and I actually felt WAY more balanced. It made a big difference and I love it.
Sounds nuts but it worked wonderfully for me- can't hurt to try it!

Will report back about the Salsa Poco bars when I get them on and try them out this weekend.

[SouthernBelle]

Just throwing in that I love my Salsa Pocos.