dead legs?

[LBTC]

recovery is totally important! rest, too!

as far as pushing through....well, it might depend what your goals are. 3 days in a row is a limit for anybody, I think, unless that 4th ride is total fun and recovery, not strenuous at all....

I have less than 4 weeks until my first race, and the trails here are just opening up. I"m doing loads of road riding, riding, but some days I have to take off, too....today my legs felt sore on the very short ride to work and home (only 5.46 km!!), but I did it faster than yesterday, so that's cool. tomorrow is a fun, kind of intense group ride - mostly guys and I'm hard on myself to be near the front... - so I knew I needed to give 'em a break. they're happy about that. if I can get my chores done soon I'll do some yoga. wait...chores? I can't do that while I"m reading and typing!!

namaste,
~T~

[nuthatch]

I believe I deplete those old glycogen stores pretty quickly and, when I come home after a 20 mile ride and I don't eat something right away to replace what I used, I spend about two to three days feeling the lead in my legs. It's just the way my body works. The replacement has to be the right stuff, too. It doesn't work to just eat an apple or something. But the timing is the most important thing. If I don't hit that window of 30 minutes after I get off the bike, it doesn't matter what I "cram into my gob" - my legs are done for.

[SnappyPix]

I second what Nuthatch has said - it sounds like you're not refuelling adequately after your rides. There's a "glycogen window" after a ride, during which you should refuel your body with around 60g of carbohydrate, to replace the fuel lost in your muscles.
I've been taking a lot more notice recently as to how I fuel my body pre-during-post rides - and am noticing that I'm not suffering nearly as much as I used to - my endurance is definitely better and I'm not getting any bonking, unlike before.
I've also heard that you should try to take in a little bit of protein post-ride too - this can reduce the amount of stiffness/deadleg by as much as 1-2 days.
When is your normal rest day? You need to allow time for your body to recover and rebuild the muscle fibres - you mentioned that you don't normally do such lengthy consecutive rides; I suggest (as others have said) that you listen to your body and break yourself in gently. You don't want to injure yourself when you've just got going - and, more importantly, you don't want to start breaking down the muscle that your beginning to build up.

[Biking Chick]

Decided I would listen to my body because, after all, this is supposed to be fun, right?

How do you time your rest breaks? When do you just push on through and later, are glad you went on and rode?

Yes ... it is all about having fun and you are very wise to listen to your body and if that means taking a break ... you need to tell your head that this is not a competition and we're in need of a rest.

On the days that I don't bike I usually take a walk - depending on the weather it could be a 20 minute or one decidedly longer. I'm always surprised at how quickly I notice that I'm using different muscles while walking rather than riding. When it's rainning and I chose not to go out on the bike I will jump on the trainer and ride for a half hour - maybe more maybe less depending on what my body tells me.

Sometimes I need to 'push through' and get out and ride but those are only on the days that I 'should' be riding ... I try to ride five days a week. If I bike six days I consider that week an 'awesome success' but any time I move my body - a thirty minute work-out with Denise Austin or a half-hour walk around the neighborhood - is better than not moving at all.

[shewhobikes]

This is such great info. I ate half of a power bar from the bike shop before the last ride, but nothing after. Just didn't know better.

More questions:

Nuthatch, what do you mean by "not just an apple?" What types of things do you eat?

Biking Chick, that's basically what I did, some yard work instead of the ride, and it felt good to keep moving w/out pounding the exact same muscles.

Snappypix, thanks,, so I need to get in 60 g of carbs w/in 30 minutes. What do you eat? I don't really have a 'normal' rest day as I am just getting into riding, having spent most of the winter in the gym doing spin and light weights. Still trying to find a schedule of suitable rides in the area during this season.

You ladies are the best!

[nuthatch]

I believe there are actual recommended ratios of protein/carbo/fat(?) for recovery by people who make a science of sports nutrition. Denise Goldberg posted a link to Nancy Clark's articles on sports nutrition that was really helpful. Other people like Chris Carmichael's advice and books. If you type "nutrition" in the search window here at TE, you'll get all kinds of threads.

I like to drink Propel and eat a peanut butter concoction made from PB, soy protein powder and honey (wildflower is the best!) with a dash of salt substitute, which has potassium chloride and sodium chloride in it. I don't know if it's scientific, but it works!! A couple of PB balls and I'm good until dinner, with no annoying after-effects!!!

[Crankin]

I have been having the same issue. At first, I thought it was just "beginning of the season" issues, even though I did a lot of exercise during the winter. I'm getting dead legs and muscle cramps even on my short little 15 mile after work rides, about half of the time. I can understand this if it's a longer distance, but I'm beginning to worry about some of my planned tours and rides later this year.
I think I don't drink enough, and even when I do, I am so thirsty as soon as I start my ride, I could drink 2 water bottles in a half hour. I am still not really good about drinking while riding, and I don't want to use a Camelback on road rides. I started using Accelerade on all of my rides, not just long ones, and eating half of a Cliff bar before a ride. It helps sometimes. I always eat when I get home, so that's not a problem. I seem to need more rest days, and I haven't taken too many lately. Help!!! I feel like a weak person.

[SnappyPix]

I think that as well as nutrition, there are a lot of other contributory factors (these are just my observations though, and I'm happy to be contradicted!)
.
1. Fitness level - have you suddenly dramatically increased your output - the recommended increase is no more than 10% per week or thereabouts (I think!). If your mileage has suddenly increased two or three-fold, this may account for some of the muscle pains, as your body hasn't really had time to adjust.

2. Intensity. Has the intensity of your riding/training increased? A mixture of hard and easy rides are recommended to gradually build up your stamina and endurance - together with a mixture of shorter and longer rides. It depends on what your goals are, and again, your fitness level. Are the rides at a much faster pace than your would normally ride? Do you measure your average speed and heart rate while riding (useful to measure intensity).

3. Warming up and down. Do you stretch before and after a ride? I always stretch post-ride (not too good at doing it before, too eager to get off and out!). The muscles you use when riding are some of the biggest muscle groups and although not everyone is in agreement that stretching helps, it works for me.

4. As Robyn says, dehydration can be a problem - muscles and bodies tire when dehydrated, taking on board fluids after a ride is just as important as during.


On the subject of nutrition, I usually eat something like dried fruit (dates, prunes, etc) post-ride, followed by a high-carb meal - into beans at the moment, so a nice mixed bean curry for dinner, or baked beans on toast/baked potato for lunch. Usually the meal is eaten within an hour of getting back, as I'm starving!

[Pink Kona]

Great posts - I too suffered from the dead leg syndrome. I train a lot - typically 7-10 days of on the bike and one day off. Granted, I'm not hammering every single day - some days I'm walking the bike, others sprint workouts and some climbing. But if your body is telling you to stop - then listen to it. I strained my achilles earlier this season and still rode 4 hours on it which resulted in a near tear. Not to scare you - but as you get more in tune with your body you will start heading the warning signs.

For training theories - the standard these days is periodization. Joe Friel wrote an excellent book called "The Training Bible." It sets up training time into different building phases and also incorporates rest weeks. If you are training for that "big" event - you can time your peak fitness for it if you plan ahead. It really works.

Another really good book is "The Female Cyclist" by Gale Bernhardt. She uses the periodization theories and puts a very cool female spin on it all.

For recovery - within 30 minutes of getting off the bike I drink a recovery cocktail. Endurox R4 has a 4:1 ratio of carbs to protein. IT WORKS (and the Tangy Orange is good - similar to a mango flavor). I prerode Tahuya, a local 65 mile climbing course in Washington for 6 hours in the pouring rain and immediately pounded 32 ounces of it and was able to race my first crit the following day. My legs did not feel like lead - they felt great! It is the best recovery drink - not only in taste but in results - that I have found to date.

Also - LARAbar is a really good snack for on the bike. You should be eating every hour and drinking every 1/2 - at least. They are made from all natural products - dates, nuts, etc and they don't break your jaw when you try to eat them. Unlike some of the other bars they have a lot of refined sugars in them, LARAbar is the one thing I've found I can eat and it doesn't mess with my GI track. They are hard to find -but dang tasty!

[LBTC]

when I am organized and not too cold after a ride I drink this (I mix it sometime before and keep it refrigerated)

1/2 c milk
1/2 c calcium fortified orange juice
1/2 c fruit yogurt
1/2 c frozen strawberries
35 g protein powder

I resorted to this as Endurox makes me so bloated. It rather sucks to feel all pumped and look at a belly sticking out!! So I figured it was the lactose in the whey protein. So I bought soy protein, soy milk, and a lactose free yogurt. It seems to work well.

today I was very cold. Had some leftover egg scramble with veggies leftover from making wraps, put that on one of 1/3 of one of those big round rye crackers, and sprinkled cheese on it. heated it was fabulous. I had some banana bread after that. I managed to avoid the girl guide cookies! yay!

yup, recovery food is very very important!

Namaste,

~T~

[CorsairMac]

Also - LARAbar is a really good snack for on the bike. You should be eating every hour and drinking every 1/2 - at least. They are made from all natural products - dates, nuts, etc and they don't break your jaw when you try to eat them. Unlike some of the other bars they have a lot of refined sugars in them, LARAbar is the one thing I've found I can eat and it doesn't mess with my GI track. They are hard to find -but dang tasty!

Pinkie: You ROCK!!!........I read this post the other day and when I went to my local Vitamin Cottage lo N behold they had Larabars. Boxes of them! So I bought a few to try out. Had my first one today and WOW!!! I am soooo stoked. They are a little pricey but then again - what part of my diet isn't anymore!
I had the banana cookie bar before my lunchtime ride and was just cruising along even in 9 mph headwinds. The most interesting part was when I got back, I wasn't all that hungry for lunch which was new for me (yes I ate anyway!). Usually the Luna Bars just hold me til I get back to the office. Also, I can't eat the LunaBars as Just a quickie meal replacement until I can get to some real food - they give me migraines. But I would be able to do that with the Larabars as they have NO Sugar period end of statement.

For anyone who hasn't heard of these or tried them they are a pure, natural bar. 24g carbs/6g protein/10g fat. The banana cookie bar I had today has: dates, almonds, and unsweetened bananas. That's it. Nothing else. They are very easy to eat, not stick to the roof of your mouth sticky and not teeth-breaking crunchy. I've got a few more at home to try but none of them have any extra ingredients in them just an unsweetened fruit, a type of nut, and dates.

If you have a Vitamin Cottage near you, they carry them and they do carry them by the box. LaraBars! Thanks again PK!

[nuthatch]

For anyone who hasn't heard of these or tried them they are a pure, natural bar. 24g carbs/6g protein/10g fat. The banana cookie bar I had today has: dates, almonds, and unsweetened bananas. That's it. Nothing else. They are very easy to eat, not stick to the roof of your mouth sticky and not teeth-breaking crunchy. I've got a few more at home to try but none of them have any extra ingredients in them just an unsweetened fruit, a type of nut, and dates.

Okay, this is so weird! I, too, was impressed with what Pinkie said and, when I was at Whole Foods, I saw the LaraBar. Yes, they are pricey. I read the ingredients and thought, "Heck, I could make these!" So I went over to the bulk bins and got a load of dried figs (completely forgot that I'd just read "dates" on the label) and a sack of cashews to make the cashew bar flavor. I threw it all in the food processor and ground away. Well, cashews are really oily nuts and figs are fairly dry fruits. I got something that looked like kitty litter. Wouldn't clump. So I added some other stuff (more dried fruit) and in two shakes of a guinea pig's tail, I had lots more kitty litter. So, to recoup my sizable investment, I will be shaking kitty litter into my mouth on the trail.

Next time, I'll let Lara make them for me. Or, I'll try with dates!

[Pink Kona]

Glad I could reciprocate the love! Thanks for the props Corsair Mac! And that is toooo funny nuthatch - I got quite a chuckle about the kitty litter.

[shewhobikes]

good info. Looked up Larabars and nobody around here has them, but with so many thumbs up, I may go ahead and order a box online. Thanks for all the help y'all!

LBTC, thanks for what looks like a great recipe.

MightyMitre, holy crapola, I don't think I'm up for a dive into ice water!

[RoadRaven]

Just going back to the question about dead legs... remember that every time you exercise, you create little tears in your muscles.

You then eat and rest to allow your muscles to repair and reshape to the new demands you have placed on them.
To allow for effective recovery and repair, you need to allow time...

If you are going to build up frequency of rides, allow your body time to adjust to that too.

Dead legs can be from incautious recovery (not enough time or inadequate nutrition)
It can be your muscles asking for gentle exercisae to help them recover (like the raking of leaves)
It may be they were expecting a certain workout and they are reminding you...