Why car drivers get mad

[Tuckervill]

Five a.m. was when I awoke. I am usually up with the sun anyway.

It was still over 90 degrees overnight, though. 90 degrees is still hot! That's a normal high for where I live in most of the summer, with some 100 degree days in July/August. Oh, and that's with 55% humidity all the time. But it gets at least in the 70s at night.

I'm sure at different times of the year Phoenix is crawling with bikes.

Karen

[Eden]

hmmmm, how's the overall design of the bike lanes in Phoenix? We have a lot of bike lanes here in Seattle, but many of them are so poorly placed that they are more dangerous to use than the car lanes....

They put them right next to parked cars - in the door zone! (and then drivers get all bent out of shape if you don't ride there - its really awful - we'd be much better without those lanes!!) or they end suddenly without any warning. Sometimes its better to avoid them all together.

These days I've heard they are going to painting "sharrows" on the roads instead of striping discrete bike lanes, more of less to remind drivers that they need to share the lane with bikes.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

hmmmm, how's the overall design of the bike lanes in Phoenix? We have a lot of bike lanes here in Seattle, but many of them are so poorly placed that they are more dangerous to use than the car lanes....

They put them right next to parked cars - in the door zone! (and then drivers get all bent out of shape if you don't ride there - its really awful - we'd be much better without those lanes!!) or they end suddenly without any warning. Sometimes its better to avoid them all together.

These days I've heard they are going to painting "sharrows" on the roads instead of striping discrete bike lanes, more of less to remind drivers that they need to share the lane with bikes.

I've read about this a bit. In the US, they put in bike lanes with absolutely no attention paid to actual practical safety of them. No cyclist in their right mind would ride in a bike lane alongside parked cars right in the door zone!!! And yet that's what they spend tons of money installing here. Stupid waste of taxpayers money. Plus, cars doublepark in the bike lanes everywhere.
If only they would get a clue from observing well designed European bike lanes! In many places in Europe, the bike lane runs alongside the sidewalk, separated by a curb and/or painted lines. Then there is a row of cement posts to keep cars from using the bike lane. Then next out is the parking lane, then the car traffic lanes. Cars are kept out of the bike and pedestrian paths altogether by cement or iron posts.

[smilingcat]

Car drivers get mad:

cause the bike lane is "supposed" to be for the cars.
cause there are slow bicycles in the way for them to use it as a passing lane.
cause there are slow bicycles in the way for them to make a right hand turn.
cause cars are supposed to go faster than a bike even when the bike is speeding. Never follow a bike.

bicycles? Well its for children riding in the neighborhood not overgrown kids out on a street. DRIVE A CAR MO--RON!!

And yes, I've been guilty of impeding cars who want to pass,who wants to create a second righthand turn lane, who wants to going faster than a car (motorpacing during practice). And most definitly, I'm an overgorwn old kid.

Oh yeah! The suddenly-opening-door-phobia. Cause I was almost taken out by one. Another gal did get taken out by one. Its amazing about those doors. You would think the car door would get tweaked. Fat chance. I wish it did but not. The gal did an end-over and landed on her head. Split the bell helmet into two but otherwise okay. Not for the helmet nor the bike.

Smilingcat

[Crankin]

About the cycling in Phoenix: well I'm a former Zonie and there were those nice wide bike lanes even when i lived there, up until 1990. But, one of the issues (besides the heat) is that the valley is built on a grid and there is a traffic light every mile. I am sure it doesn't make for great cycling, hence the reason why someone said their friends go "far out" to do their rides. Today, that might be very far out from where I lived in south Tempe, which was considered the sticks when I moved there. Heck, Warner road wasn't even paved when I lived in Chandler in 1980. Back then, you would would rarely see people even walking outside and the car culture is really strong.
Also, I have read that the "season" for cycling in southern AZ is from October to April. That makes sense. I used to walk at 5 AM and even that was brutal. No wonder I became a gym rat.

[IFjane]

People like that are road-hogs and think everyone else should get out of their way. They'll do that until one day and they'll go splat.

Thinning of the herd...

There is a cycling group in a neighboring county & they have several young (early 20's) men who have joined some of our joint rides. Those young men love to ride down our country roads three abreast & don't care if they block traffic. We finally had to tell them that they could block all the traffic they want in their own county, but not while they are with us. We ride these roads all the time & do not want angry drivers out there. We asked them to ride single file (or no more than two abreast IF they aren't blocking traffic) and said if they can't do that then maybe they had better go back home.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Oh yeah! The suddenly-opening-door-phobia. Cause I was almost taken out by one. Another gal did get taken out by one. Its amazing about those doors. You would think the car door would get tweaked. Fat chance. I wish it did but not. The gal did an end-over and landed on her head. Split the bell helmet into two but otherwise okay. Not for the helmet nor the bike.

She was very lucky. Many "doored" cyclists wind up dead, either landing on their head and breaking their necks or being thrown in front of a moving vehicle in the lane to their left and being run over.
Never ride within 3 feet of a parked car on your right. If necessary get right into the vehicle lane while navigating the congested stretch of road...you can move right again once the road opens up.

[Starfish]

cause cars are supposed to go faster than a bike even when the bike is speeding. Never follow a bike.

Yesterday I was riding up a mountain road and was within 100 yards of the park entry gate, where all traffic must stop. The speed limit up to the gate was 25mph, and a slight downhill. I was going 23mph (in anticipation of coming to a stop at the gatehouse).

The car behind me tailgated me, and pulled around me at the last second without enough time to actually pass me, and forced me to veer to the right and brake HARD. We got to the gatehouse at exactly the same time.

It was an older woman, and rather than it being a competitive or angry situation for her, I think she really just could not believe that a bike was basically doing the speed limit and not holding her up. I suspect she simply assumed she would be faster than a bike and should pass it.

I showed a lot of restraint when we got to the gate. Maybe I should have pounded on her trunk and had a talk with her. I don't know. I probably would have lost my temper.

[divingbiker]

Never[/B] ride within 3 feet of a parked car on your right. If necessary get right into the vehicle lane while navigating the congested stretch of road...you can move right again once the road opens up.

If I followed this, I could not commute to work by bike. There is no route to downtown DC that allows me to ride on a street wide enough for me to be 3 feet from parked cars and still allow cars to pass. I just try to be very vigilant observing brake lights, people sitting in cars, etc and move into the road (after signaling) when it seems that a car door might open. Other than that, I take my chances and hope for the best.

We all have to do what works in our own situation--I've no doubt that downtown DC is quite different than rural New York.

[PinkBike]

Robyn, your comment that Warner wasnt even paved made me laugh - and cry! There's solid housing now all the way to Hunt Highway. There are no bike lanes, or there'll be a great bike lane that will just end. Poof, disappearing bike lane. And the City of Tempe are the biggest hypocrites - they say they are "bike friendly" - what a crock! Mill Avenue is one lane now and the bike lane is on the left of the cars - that door alley this thread has been talking about. This place just plain svcks for bicycling, but there are a lot of us enthusiasts who just make the best of it.

Tucson - now that's a GREAT CITY for bicycling, they really know how to do it right!!

And you're right about the season - October thru April. I still ride all summer. I passed a bank sign that said it was 114 and I thought I was late for work but realized that was the temp not the time.

I guess wherever you are you just make the most of it. What else can you do? Besides count the time til retirement!!!!

[Aint Doody]

Sorta long--I just got back from the Florida Panhandle--Navarre Beach to be exact--and had only 2 frightening experiences. (I also got to meet & ride w/Bad Juju--but that's another story.) To get from Navarre Beach to the area where there are more miles to ride, one must cross a high, 2-laned bridge with no shoulder. There is a pedestrian walk on the bridge. Anyway I've found over the years that the best thing to do on that bridge is to stay to the right when there is no oncoming traffic. When there was oncoming traffic, I took the lane to prevent the "squeeze play." Mostly people were understanding and coureous. Shoot, I was looking out for them as well as myself. But on 2 occasions when I was heading over the bridge back to Navarre Beach SUV's with Lousiana tags on them honked and tried to run me off the bridge. I mean, there was nowhere for me to go but over the edge!

The first one pulled into the very first condo complex after the bridge. I saw them and hurried to catch them to tell them what they did was not only dangerous but against FL law (3 ft law). Unfortunately by the time I got there, they'd headed up the elevator. Musta had a cold beer waiting--or maybe had been drinking the cold beer and needed the bathroom. Didn't catch the 2nd one.

We were discussing this in my family, and my BIL pointed out that it's the idea that some drivers think they're more important than anybody else on the road. I have one brother who is approaching obesity and thought that I should have walked my bike over in the pedestrian lane that was totally separated from the rest of traffic. (He thinks I shouldn't slow down any traffic even for a moment.) I guess I could have--long bridge. There's another shorter bridge on the same little stretch of road that has a sign that says "Walk bicycles over bridge." I did that there--had to lift it over the guard rail and squeeze past the fishermen.

Anyway the comment that maybe bicycles need to be licensed isn't such a bad idea. That way we could be sure that cyclists would have to pass a test to prove that we understand the traffic laws. And then the comments about "not paying for the roads" would be false. Enforcing that would be difficult, and who should have to have a license at what age would be confusing. I also cringe to think about more government control, but the idea of more people hopefully being aware of safety issues and just why sometimes bicycles take a lane might outweigh the negatives.

[Tuckervill]

I pay for roads through my property taxes and sales taxes, not license fees. So whether or not I use them, I pay. They belong to everyone, not just drivers.

Karen

[Susan Otcenas]

As several cars jammed on their brakes and honked, the cyclists passed us and got back into the shoulder in front of us and zoomed on down the road, all of them then giving the finger to the honking cars for good measure.

Someday it may get me in trouble, but I just can't put up with this kind of crap. I believe those of us who care about how we are treated on the road need to be "roll" models. And I think part of that responsibility is educating (sometimes forcibly) those who ride their bikes in a dangerous manner.

Yesterday, I was paused at a red light when a cyclist (wearing headphones, no less) blew past me on my right and totally ran the light. I shouted at him, and when the light turned green, I chased him down and caught him at the next light, where he'd stopped (much bigger intersection). I pulled up along side of him and said "Hey, what do you think you were doing back there?". He refused to acknowledge my presence, staring straight ahead. So, I gave him a piece of my mind. Told him that not only were his actions dangerous to himself, but that that kind of behavior gives all cyclists a bad name and that he should respect the lights. Still staring straight ahead, he proceeds to ask me if I tell motorists the same thing.

Well, as a matter of fact, I do. He, of course, sped off at a furious pace after the light turned green, and I turned right.

I also won't ride with people who ride like boneheads. For the most part, I ride with people who, like me, wear an eyeglass-mounted mirror so that we can be aware of our surroundings and know when it's safe to ride two abreast, and when it isn't. I believe that we must SHARE the road, which doesn't simply mean cars sharing with bikes. It means we cyclists have to learn to share too, even if it sometimes means yielding our right of way to a big truck on a narrow road. Not because the truck is dangerous, but because it's courteous to the truck driver, who 99 times out of a 100 is a hardworking person just doing his job like the rest of us.

I could go on.....

[Zen]

I have one brother who is approaching obesity and thought that I should have walked my bike over in the pedestrian lane that was totally separated from the rest of traffic. (He thinks I shouldn't slow down any traffic even for a moment.) I guess I could have--long bridge. There's another shorter bridge on the same little stretch of road that has a sign that says "Walk bicycles over bridge." I did that there--had to lift it over the guard rail and squeeze past the fishermen.

Does bodyweight affect the thought process? I haven't heard that news.
I lived in Fort Lauderdale for a few years. The Intercoastal Waterway there is full of drawbridges and there is a sign at the beginning of each that tells cyclists they must walk their bikes over the bridge. Some do, some don't. Just like doping in the Tour, lawbreakers give good people a bad name.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Someday it may get me in trouble, but I just can't put up with this kind of crap. I believe those of us who care about how we are treated on the road need to be "roll" models. And I think part of that responsibility is educating (sometimes forcibly) those who ride their bikes in a dangerous manner.

Yesterday, I was paused at a red light when a cyclist (wearing headphones, no less) blew past me on my right and totally ran the light. I shouted at him, and when the light turned green, I chased him down and caught him at the next light, where he'd stopped (much bigger intersection). I pulled up along side of him and said "Hey, what do you think you were doing back there?". He refused to acknowledge my presence, staring straight ahead. So, I gave him a piece of my mind. Told him that not only were his actions dangerous to himself, but that that kind of behavior gives all cyclists a bad name and that he should respect the lights. Still staring straight ahead, he proceeds to ask me if I tell motorists the same thing.

Well, as a matter of fact, I do. He, of course, sped off at a furious pace after the light turned green, and I turned right.

I also won't ride with people who ride like boneheads. For the most part, I ride with people who, like me, wear an eyeglass-mounted mirror so that we can be aware of our surroundings and know when it's safe to ride two abreast, and when it isn't. I believe that we must SHARE the road, which doesn't simply mean cars sharing with bikes. It means we cyclists have to learn to share too, even if it sometimes means yielding our right of way to a big truck on a narrow road. Not because the truck is dangerous, but because it's courteous to the truck driver, who 99 times out of a 100 is a hardworking person just doing his job like the rest of us.

I could go on.....

Oh Boy I agree with all that! I am always trying to be as courteous as safety allows me to be to drivers. I take the lane immediately if I need it to be safe, but I stay out of their way if I can do so safely. I feel they appreciate my efforts in that I NEVER EVER get honked at or cursed. Drivers give me lots of room and tend to be courteous right back at me (unless they don't see me, that is)
Just today I greeted 3 teenagers on mtn bikes with a friendly Hello and then told them as I rode around them that they were riding on the wrong side of the road.

Your description of what the light-eater said to you about motorists reminded me of a funny interchange at a coffee shop last weekend. I locked my bike up outside a cafe to the backside of a park bench (no racks or trees to be had anywhere) and came in to eat. Some guy sitting by the window in there says to me: "You should lock your bike to a tree." to which I replied there were no trees, nor bike racks either. Then he says: "I can guarantee that nobody around here is going to steal your bike." to which I replied "Are you willing to back that guarantee up with cold hard cash?"....he did not reply.
The guy obviously needed a new hobby.