Vino positive!!!

[Kalidurga]

I still think there are serious flaws in the testing procedures. More samples need to be sent to independent labs (outside of France). One lab doing all the testing, when it's been shown there are problems with their protocols . . . how are we supposed to believe their results? That's why I'm still on the fence about Floyd. Honestly not a huge Floyd fan either, but I have a hunch he was set up by the lab.

I should add that I think Floyd was framed simply because he's an American.

Yeah, the fact that they continue to use that lab bothers me, as well. I don't see any reason to frame Vino, as he's not a GC threat, but that lab's integrity has been called into question repeatedly so it just throws suspicion over any of their findings.

[slinkedog]

We have very good friends who live in Paris and they say it's hard for Americans to understand how much the French hate the fact that Americans have been dominating the sport. It's a little scary, according to them.

[Grog]

Yeah, the fact that they continue to use that lab bothers me, as well. I don't see any reason to frame Vino, as he's not a GC threat, but that lab's integrity has been called into question repeatedly so it just throws suspicion over any of their findings.

Considering the heavy stakes, I can't imagine a lab whose integrity wouldn't be questioned after its results were used to accuse riders of doping.

Of course the lab has had cases with Americans: they've been winning. Back-of-the-peloton French riders don't get tested as often because they don't win very often.

[xeney]

Don't think about Vino - think about the guys like Alberto Contador and how awesome he is....and hopefully clean and honest!

I love Contador, too, but remember he was already implicated in the Operacion Puerto scandal. I have no illusions that any of them are clean.

[maillotpois]

Recall that Vino will be the first rider to test positive under that new charter they made everyone sign before they could ride in the Tour. Under that agreement, he will forfeit his 2007 salary for a positive test.

[Darby361]

Here is a question... why was the entire team asked to leave? If the rule is that the entire team goes from one positive, then why didn't all of T-Mobile get asked to leave when Sinkewitz tested positive?

Trish

[Eden]

Here is a question... why was the entire team asked to leave? If the rule is that the entire team goes from one positive, then why didn't all of T-Mobile get asked to leave when Sinkewitz tested positive?

Trish

The Sinkewitz positive was not during the TDF, it was just announced during the TDF. Plus, he had already pulled out of the TDF because of a crash by the time the announcement was made.

[onimity]

I've read a couple of reports that indicate that the team has not pulled out of the race. Also that the police have raided their hotel.

Who knows, but it is a disappointing development all around.

[SadieKate]

Fuentes himself stated that he had never treated Contador and Contador has been formally cleared.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...n07/jan15news2
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operaci...to_doping_case

From what I have also read, his name was never found in the records but I can't find this article right now.

[li10up]

The idea of it being a "mix up" is totally ...bull$hit.
HE NEVER SHOULD HAVE LET SOMEONE PUT A NEEDLE IN HIS ARM WITH A BAG OF BLOOD ON THE OTHER END!!!!!!! That in itself would show he knowingly participated.

[BadgerGirl]

I love Contador, too, but remember he was already implicated in the Operacion Puerto scandal. I have no illusions that any of them are clean.

I hate to condemn all cycling athletes because of a few cheaters. Just like not everyone on the street I deal with is a criminal. It is flawed to think like that. If you read several articles about Operation Puerto, you will see that the investigators rushed to conclusions about riders possibly involved in it. Contador was one of the riders the investigations committee said they rushed to judgement and cleared him. Does that mean he is not doping, no. Does that mean he is doping, no. Think and say what you want because that is just my opinion.

[Eden]

Any molecular biologists out there? I was just thinking about the flow cytometry test and with the way it is done I was wondering if a high white count or the presence of antibiotics could yield a false positive. I have heard that Vinokurov's knee is infected.

[RoadRaven]

Gutted? Yes

Disappointed? Yes

But wait... what happened to innnocent til proven guilty
He gets a second chance in case the lab f'ed up

He's requested the second test... shouldn't the condemnations wait until that is announced positive?

(And in the meantime all wish fervently that its all just a BIG mistake)


Oh, and can anyone answer Eden's question about the possibility of an infected knee affecting his blood chemistry?

[alpinerabbit]

Any molecular biologists out there? I was just thinking about the flow cytometry test and with the way it is done I was wondering if a high white count or the presence of antibiotics could yield a false positive. I have heard that Vinokurov's knee is infected.

Show me a description of the test and I'll try and find out. I am a molecular biologist but have not seen articles on the method.

It is unimaginable how they can do this day after day. They did it in 1903 without doping, if a rider has any moral standards and a true love of the sport for sports sake they wouldn't do it. I just don't get it, they're not exactly making pro football salaries.

a) in 1903 they already knew how to use alcohol, cocaine, even strychnine.

b) because they are not making enough money in a couple years to retire for the rest of their lives, they are desperate for wins.

Originally Posted by HappyAnika
I should add that I think Floyd was framed simply because he's an American.

I posted something awhile back (and it ticked someone off) that said "I blame the French"
I don't entirely blame the French on this one.

Yeah it ticks me off too. Yes the lab screws up, others do too, but come effin' on.... JUST because he was an American? V is Kazakh, Chicken is danish, and Contador is spanish. So frame them all so a French guy can win....?

Doping is in this sport like a cancer and it has been for the past 100 years.....



Edit.

I checked out the method.

Briefly, the test uses a panel of antibodies against many (>10) red blood cell (RBC) antigens. When any of these antibodies reacts with the RBC antigens ..... the idea is that the presence of the RBC antigens varies in any population of humans and thus a homologous transfusion can be detected in a person receiving one unit of blood

So the antibodies are specific for red blood cells. white blood cells due to infection would not skew the result and frankly, if his infection was that strong, he would not be winning time trials. Same for Antibiotics. They don't react with the antibodies in question.
Could V claim chimaerism like Tyler H.? Apparently, one out of 8000 normal people and 8% of twins are chimeric. But this is something that every rider could have been tested for on his own free will after the H. case.

[bikerchick68]

WOW... that article with Boonen is something else... he throws down Rasmussen as well... said he believes Rasmussen is doped too...

yeah, Boonen's quotes are BEYOND PO'd...