Does anyone sell womens specific frames only?

[Triskeliongirl]

FYI, both my bikes are a 9 spd ultegra/XT mix by choice. I have no problem finding 9 spd replacement parts. I chose 9 spd so I can mix road and mountain parts, to let me use a compact double in front, with mountain gearing in back for mountains. Heck, you can still find 5 spd parts. Try someone like Harris Cyclery.

You are also ignoring a critical fit factor by focussing only on top tube length and not seat tube angle, both of which effect reach.

This is how the seat tube angle stuff works. All you have to understand is that every 1 degree increase in seat tube angle pushes the seat tube closer to the bars, so while this can be used to reduce the top tube length, it doesn't change the reach, because the saddle then needs to go back 1 cm to get the same KOP position. So in other words, the REACH ON the following bikes are identical:

BIKE STA TT

1 73 52
2 74 51
3 75 50
4 76 49

The problem is that someone might purchase bike 4, thinking it has the shortest top tube, without realizing that it is identical to the other choices. For ME, the problem with too steep a seat tube is that even with the saddle all the way back on the rails, my knee is too far forward of the pedal axle. So, as she test rides bikes, note both the seat tube angle and top tube length (assuming she has adequate clearance over the top tube and can get the bars to the desired height easily). Once you know her ideal geometry, its easier to shop around on ebay. I got a never been built terry isis frame that sold new as a complete bike for $2000 for only $100 on ebay, and then just swapped all the relatively new parts from an older rusting bike to make a helluva sweet ride. This doesn't have to be expensive, but you do need to know what frame geometry you are looking for.

[Kathi]

[QUOTE=Triskeliongirl;222879]

This is how the seat tube angle stuff works. All you have to understand is that every 1 degree increase in seat tube angle pushes the seat tube closer to the bars, so while this can be used to reduce the top tube length, it doesn't change the reach, because the saddle then needs to go back 1 cm to get the same KOP position. So in other words, the REACH ON the following bikes are identical:

BIKE STA TT

1 73 52
2 74 51
3 75 50
4 76 49

QUOTE]


Keep in mind every individual is different. With a 74.5 or 75 sta my saddles are forward because I have a short femur. My custom frame has a 74.5 sta and a zero degree seatpost and my saddle is forward to accomodate the KOPS position. I have a mtn bike with a 72.5 sta and I feel like I'm riding a recumbent because my knee angle is so far off center.

Ideally, I could use a sta of 76 degrees.

[Triskeliongirl]

Keep in mind every individual is different. With a 74.5 or 75 sta my saddles are forward because I have a short femur. My custom frame has a 74.5 sta and a zero degree seatpost and my saddle is forward to accomodate the KOPS position. I have a mtn bike with a 72.5 sta and I feel like I'm riding a recumbent because my knee angle is so far off center.

Ideally, I could use a sta of 76 degrees.

Of course, but not sure if you are arguing or not that the combination of sta and tt length determines reach. My point is that you cannot only look at TT length when comparing 2 bikes. I agree with you that the range of acceptable sta's is also highly individual. I need something very slack (ideally 72) while clearly you need something very steep (ideally 76), just to be able to get KOPs to work with the available saddles and seatposts. You have to look at all of these factors to determine if a frame is or isn't going to work. FYI, maybe Kathi could try one of those forward seatposts they sell for time trial bikes for her mtn bike with the slack sta http://www.gottaridebikes.com/Mercha...roduct_Count=1

[Kathi]

Of course, but not sure if you are arguing or not that the combination of sta and tt length determines reach. My point is that you cannot only look at TT length when comparing 2 bikes. I agree with you that the range of acceptable sta's is also highly individual. I need something very slack (ideally 72) while clearly you need something very steep (ideally 76), just to be able to get KOPs to work with the available saddles and seatposts. You have to look at all of these factors to determine if a frame is or isn't going to work. FYI, maybe Kathi could try one of those forward seatposts they sell for time trial bikes for her mtn bike with the slack sta http://www.gottaridebikes.com/Mercha...roduct_Count=1

Thanks, but I have a good mtn bike that fits. I still have the Voodoo but it is mostly ridden to the store (1mile) and by visitors.

[Triskeliongirl]

By KOPS I mean getting whatever the optimum knee over pedal position is for the rider right. In my case I actually prefer it if my knee is 1 cm behind the pedal axle. But, my points were that you need to consider reach as a comb. of STA and TT length, and also, as reiterated by Kathi, you need to be sure the STA will allow whatever the riders appropriate KOP position is to be established. Small women are more sensitive to all this crap, cuz manufacturers mess more with frame angles on smaller sized bikes so they can outfit the bike with 700cc wheels. If the bike doesn't fit, your GF will not like cylcing, its as simple as that.

[skunk]

Keith Bontrager wrote a pretty good article busting the KOPS myth.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html

[Trek420]

..... busting the KOPS myth.....

Alrighty then, I guess you've won because that's just the end of that concept

No system really other than a great bike shop and club, I'm just working on my 5th custom bike.