Confused

[dolcerider]

I just started riding this past year and have been receiving paceline training from a few professional riders that I go out with once a week. They have advocated the advantage of learning this technique and being a newbie, I have found it very effective for long rides/ hills. This is where I am confused. I recently completed my first 66 mile charity ride- way too many hills... and I had a rider who was for a short time behind me yell out that she was back there, but not to worry that she was not trying to pull off of me. She went on to state that she just blew off another rider who had tried to do that to her. I thanked her for letting me know she was behind me, but I also told her I didn't mind if she did. Obviously she didn't need to because she quickly accelerated and went around me. So what is the correct etiquite for riders? Do you use paceline/pulling only with your group? I see using it as a great advantage but obviously not everyone feels that way. Very confused.

[mimitabby]

yes, that's part of it. You don't draft off someone without their permission.
the fact is; you've been practicing with a certain group of people, and you know them. Enter a stranger; and start pacing with them. Do they pay attention? are they steady? Are they going to bump your tire and make you crash? You just don't know, and no one knows about your riding skills either. So most people DON'T do it with folks they don't know, at least not without permission; and then permission is not always granted.

[Grog]

Being ahead in a paceline (or just drafting one other person) brings responsibilities. It's important to ask permission (or at least to notify!!!) the person ahead that you've given her those responsibilities if you're going to take her wheel (especially on a hill where you might stand up or make less predictable movements).

I think you both did okay there!

[dolcerider]

Thank you. Now I understand and I see why someone might be a little unsure of someone elses ability. I think I have been a little spoiled riding with the professionals but also thankful of the wonderful lessons they have taught. Women giving back and supporting women - can't beat that! I will be sure however to ask permission if I am ever in that situation on the road.

[KSH]

I know for me, there are situations where I am OK with someone drafting off me, if I don't know them. Although, most of the time they just make me nervous.

At my last rally I had this guy drafting off to the left of me due a side wind. This guy really got in my nerves. I was weaving at times, and he was sitting off my wheel and overlapping our wheels. I was scared of weaving and his wheel hitting mine and both of us going down. He finally moved on and did it to someone else ahead of me.

Otherwise, I don't draft off strangers. I don't trust them enough.

[CR400]

I don't generally care if somebody needs a pull as long as I know somebody is behind me. I also have no problem drafting off of somebody who is willing to pull me. Usually if I need the help of a pull I ask the strongest and fastest cyclist I can find as they pass me. I have once or twice asked a stranger to pace me back up to my group.
I also feel that every cyclist should know how to defend their front wheel.. More importantly have had the opportunity to try it. I hit my wheel once on the back of a friend and turned in properly and pulled away while staying up. Turns out I ended up needing that ability is a race the next week. Somebody cut in to soon around me.
Generally it seems frowned upon to draft or pull somebody you don't know.

[Starfish]

At the risk of sort of changing the thread direction...how do you tell someone you don't want them drafting off you?

I have had sometimes when I have not minded if someone did (although I prefer they ask first). Other times I have not been happy with it.

Just curious to know how you women tell others to back off.

[teigyr]

I am passive-aggressive about it. It makes me nervous to have someone I don't know behind me for many reasons. I don't know if they are waiting to pass so I try to stay over as far as I can which is non-comfy. I don't know if they will respond if I slow or corner slowly and I don't know who they are! So what I do is slow up. If they're going to pass then they'll pass. If they don't, I slow up more. If they still don't pass, I stop pedaling.

I had a toady old guy once get in behind me. He then moved to my side but wouldn't go away. Even after I stopped pedaling, he stayed a bit. Oddly enough, he didn't do that to DH who was riding ahead of me. He did it again later (he must've turned off to go to the bathroom or something). When he finally passed, he said "so we're doing intervals today?" RUDE!

I just think if someone is going to stay close, they should identify themselves. If I have to stay behind someone, say I'm going to be leaving the trail soon and there's no sense in passing, I will let the person know that I'm behind them but will be turning soon. The person usually thanks me for letting them know.

[Grog]

At the risk of sort of changing the thread direction...how do you tell someone you don't want them drafting off you?

"Would you mind passing me, I'd rather not have anyone riding on my wheel today."

[Jiffer]

At the risk of sort of changing the thread direction...how do you tell someone you don't want them drafting off you?

I was thinking of the same thing that Teigyr suggested. Just slow down, so they don't WANT to draft you. I haven't had this experience yet, though. (Newbie!)

I've been wondering about all this same sort of stuff, though, so this is a good thread. On our tandem ride to the beach yesterday, we and our other tandem friends ended up drafting with a few other cyclists. There was a guy who had sort of attached himself to us for a while, then we caught up to two or three other guys and slowed down behind them. I kept expecting that we'd pass them, but finally clued in that we were drafting with them. They ended up speeding up when they realized we were there and we stayed with them the rest of the way.

I never asked, but wondered also about the etiquette of all of this. The guy that started drafting us didn't ask. As far as I know our tandem friends ahead of us didn't ask the "other guys" we ended up with. I have a feeling it's more acceptable among the guys, but I don't know. I'll have to get Dh's take on this.

[Kano]

So, one time, we're out riding, and I was dragging badly (needed fuel stop) so DH thought it would be a great idea to try this drafting thing. My understanding of this drafting business is that you kind of get to rest, but keep going "real fast." Sounds good in theory...

He'd slow down so that I could catch up to him -- giving it all I had, no, wait, more than I had left in me -- and as soon as I'd catch him, he'd gear up and pedal like crazy, dropping me in about two seconds flat.

Then he wanted to know why the heck I didn't stick with him!

Um, cuz I couldn't go any more?

Haven't attempted that again...


Anyhow, I suppose that would be a way to get a pest off your "bumper"!!!

Karen in Boise

[dolcerider]

Just got in from my Thursday nite ride where our small but dedicated group practiced paceline. When it works - absolutely amazing! We were going thru town and it felt like we were coasting at 23 mph. But as I was riding I thought of the previous posts and was very thankful I was with a group of riders that I have ridden with and know their skill levels. There were a couple of sharp turns where it could have been a disaster.

Great skill to learn, but frequent practice is needed especially for us newbies.
I now know not to assume it is ok to draft from someone who does not know you, but I also agree there are polite ways of letting someone know it is not something you want them to do. The idea of slowing down to discourage someone who doesn't respond is a hoot!

Thanks for all your feedback!

[indysteel]

Here are my somewhat rambling thoughts on the matter. I go to a weekday training ride where we ride in tight paceline formation. There are about 8-10 people in the "B" group who show up regularly enough and we have a certain level of trust among us. Every once in a while, however, someone new shows up and we're all on guard. I find myself getting more and more assertive in speaking up if that person--or even one of the regulars--is doing something squirrelly, like overlapping wheels. I hate to admit, however, that every once in a while I still do something kind of boneheaded myself. It really takes A LOT of practice, not just to draft, but to train yourself to react to situations--like a stray dog or road hazard--in a calm manner so that in trying to avert one problem, you don't cause another. It sounds easy until you're in the middle of it.

I do a lot of club rides on the weekends, which generally attract between 75 and 125 riders. At these, I often find myself either on someone's wheel or with someone on my wheel. There are so many people that it's almost inevitable--at least at the beginning before we all get spread out or as we leave a SAG. Especially for the first few miles of a club ride, I always assume someone is behind me and, therefore, use appropriate hand and voice signals just to be safe. I also sometimes find myself in a paceline at club rides with people I don't know very well, but I can typically get a sense of whether it's a safe or a squirrelly group pretty quickly. I now recognize the club regulars and generally have some idea of how safely they ride. In any event, if somebody starts to ride unpredictably, I back off or speed up.

However, as the ride wears on and we spread out, I'm very much less likely to attach myself to someone's wheel and am a little more weirded out when someone does that to me, especially if they don't make their presence known. And if I'm riding on my own, I never just draft off a stranger's wheel if I encounter them on the road and would be more than a little weirded out if someone did that to me. At most, I might have a short chat with them and then allow one or the other of us to go on ahead.

Beyond the safety issues--which are paramount--I think you have to have some appreciation for group dynamics to know if, when and how to approach other riders on the road. I did an out-of-town two-day event ride with a friend in May. During the course of the ride, I realized that we had very different approaches to the issue. To illustrate: As we were leaving a SAG, we found ourselves in the middle of a big group of people from the local cycling club that was sponsoring the ride. They quickly formed a loose paceline and my friend went to the front of the group and rode there for about 15 miles. In contrast, I stayed to the back of the group and more or less just minded my own business, kept my guard up and tried to just ride safely. Fortunately for both of us, they ended up being a rather friendly group. My friend chatted with several of the riders, while I got at least some sense that they knew what they were doing. Later, we hooked up with part of the group again at another SAG and road the last 20 miles with them. I didn't hang back as much this time, and they were more than willing to incorporate us into their group.

On day two of the ride, we road off and on in clusters of other riders because the route was crowded until after the first SAG. After we'd spread out, we came up on a group of about five (what appeared to be) friends riding together. My friend attached herself to the back of the group, while I hung back about 20 yards. From my vantage point, they didn't seem like they wanted any company. I, myself, didn't feel comfortable riding that closely to them, but if she noticed, she showed no signs of backing off. After a few miles of this, they finally sped up and left her.

My friend doesn't do any organized paceline riding and, in my opinion, has less appreciation for the risks and skills involved. As such, I think she's a little more aggressive/oblivous when it comes to drafting and the dynamics of group riding. I'm much more cautious and tend to hang back. I think it pays--both as a matter of safety and courtesy--to keep your distance from other riders until you can discern whether they're safe to ride with and/or want your company. I don't have one hard or fast rule that I live by in that regard other than to be observant, to ride defensively and predictably regardless of who's in front or behind me, to announce my presence and, if necessary, ask if it's okay.