runners vs. cyclist

[SadieKate]

I think the comment about hoping the runner will be predictable is very accurate. I do think that both drivers and runners need to recognize (and some do) that they can see oncoming traffic and make a better decision about passing.

Around here, you never know if the runners and walkers (and cyclists also) will move into a single file line. I've just decided to hold my line, staying straight and not swerving into traffic. It sounds harsh, but the runner(s) can see traffic behind me and I can't.

I also can't think of any reason to be snooty to a runner unless they do something stupid that endangers any of us. Now dog walkers with those expand-o leashes, beware . . . . .

[singletrackmind]

It makes me sad and a wee bit angry.
Runners should be on the side as much as is safe but shouldn't have to hop onto the sidewalk to be avoided by a cyclist -sidewalks are as dangerous to runners as gutters are to us- cyclists should slow if necessary and safely go around the runner. Cars are expected to do so for us, they don't expect us to hop onto the sidewalk (ok, they shouldn't) just so they don't have to exercise caution and the same should go for a runner. We all have to share and because runners/walkers are the most likely to get hurt they should get priority over both cars/bikes, bikes should get priority over cars and cars should get the heck out of the way! , um, I mean drive like there are more people on the earth besides their own selves. Of course it'd help relations if everyone involved all knew/followed the rules of the road.

[SadieKate]

. . . and because runners/walkers are the most likely to get hurt

Just curious, why do you think this?

[singletrackmind]

Just curious, why do you think this?

You know, you've made me realize I should have said that differently. Thanks!

Pedestrians are the only ones 'unarmed' with something extraneous that could hurt others. They are going slowly and unlikely to run into a bike or car. Note, I'm not saying unlikely to cause us to run into them, some do seem directionally unstable. All the more reason for us to exercise caution. While crashing into a pedestrian might cause both a great deal of pain and injury it's our speed that ups the ante, isn't it? Two people crashing into each other vs. a walkerpeople and a bikerpeople, seems obvious which pair would likely be worse hurt.

[Deanna]

I was wondering about the presence of runners in bike lanes a while back, and found out the law (in CA at least) is, they don't belong there if there's a sidewalk. It would be like running down a car lane. Runners are considered pedestrians, so if there's no sidewalk (chances are there's no bike lane), cyclists yield the right of way to the runners as they would any other pedestrians. If there is a sidewalk, a cyclists shouldn't have to swerve into a car lane to avoid a ped in the bike lane.

Part of what it may come down to is cycling advocacy groups have to work A LOT harder to get bike lanes put into general plans and striped on the roads, so cyclists may be justified in being a little possessive. Developers pretty much automatically put in sidewalks.

[SadieKate]

I was wondering about the presence of runners in bike lanes a while back, and found out the law (in CA at least) is, they don't belong there if there's a sidewalk. It would be like running down a car lane. Runners are considered pedestrians, so if there's no sidewalk (chances are there's no bike lane), cyclists yield the right of way to the runners as they would any other pedestrians. If there is a sidewalk, a cyclists shouldn't have to swerve into a car lane to avoid a ped in the bike lane.

Deanna, thanks for the research. I was trying to do that myself and then got distracted by something (surprise, surprise). Anyway, I realize that Davis is a unique-being unto itself in many ways cycling-related, but we do have a lot of roads with bike lanes and sidewalks. These tend to be on the edges of town and even out on what most people would consider a farm road, even on campus through the fields. Fortunately, in these instances, the bike lane tends to be very wide so if everyone goes single-file we can pass each other safely. I do as I said, hold my line and I stay to the right. Since in the US, we tend to be a "stay to the right" kind of culture, this makes me more predictable but it does force the runner to be closer to traffic.

One thing to consider is that asphalt is kinder to the joints than cement/concrete so runners tend to migrate to the road. Not to mention they don't like dodging walkers anymore than cyclists do.

Frankly, it's the runners/walkers who are not going against traffic that create the riskier problem.

[smilingcat]

So what am I supposed to do in the following situation? Happend to me on numerous occasion.

Several runners running toward me (going the opposite direction of traffic) in the bike lane.

I have no choice but to move into the traffic lane and out of the bike lane. Two or three of the runners then run out into the traffic lane and signals me to get back into the bike lane?? WHAT??

I have no choice to move further into the traffic lane and they do the same. I lock up my brake. They are angry that I didn't follow their instruction. I don't take this lightly and tell them they are jay walking and should get out of the street. And not impede a vehicle on the street. They are not nice so I'm not nice. GRRR!!!! I've also had this happen from skateboarders, in-line skaters, other beach going beach cruiser cyclists.

I used to run when I lived in NYC. When I was running on MUT I usually do little bit of "cross country" off the trail to let the cyclist go by. Its much easier for me as a runner to get out of the way than a cyclist.

When a jogger gets out of the bike lane I do thank them polietly. On a MUT, I wouldn't assume I have the right of way.

Smilingcat

[SadieKate]

Several runners running toward me (going the opposite direction of traffic) in the bike lane.

I have no choice but to move into the traffic lane and out of the bike lane. Two or three of the runners then run out into the traffic lane and signals me to get back into the bike lane?? WHAT??

I have no choice to move further into the traffic lane and they do the same.

So you and the runners are facing each other? And you move to your left out into traffic?

I'm trying to picture your example.

[smilingcat]

So you and the runners are facing each other? And you move to your left out into traffic?

I'm trying to picture your example.

Yes, they are running toward me. If I'm heading south on right hand side of the road, they are heading north on my side of the road. going against the traffic. They would be running toward the oncoming cars.

They are not running with the traffic but running against the traffic.

Make sense??
Smilingcat

[Jiffer]

Changing the subject slightly ... but not really ... my sister and her Dh have a blind friend who runs. My brother-in-law runs with him and is his guide. They basically have a system down as to what BIL (brother-in-law) says when the blind friend needs to avoid something. They were running with a group along a trail one day. They went down a hill and hit a flat section that was half covered with mud. The runners moved to the dry section to run around the mud. Just as BIL and blind friend were in that section, a cyclist came screaming down the hill in front of them. BIL yelled for his friend to move a specific direction to miss both the cyclist and the mud. It was opposite of what he normally says, but on purpose. Blind guy was confused did the opposite and collided right into the cyclist. The cyclist started yelling obscenities until he realized the guy he hit was blind, then was all apologetic.

Blind guy got up, brushed off the road rash crud and said, "Let's go!" (This guy actually runs marathons. Amazing.)

I'm not sure how this relates to this thread except that it's for sure a very interesting "cyclist vs. runner" story to say the least!!!

[singletrackmind]

So what am I supposed to do in the following situation? Happend to me on numerous occasion.

Several runners running toward me (going the opposite direction of traffic) in the bike lane.
Smilingcat

If they are making themselves clear I do what they ask and thank them. It may not be the right way but they can see whether traffic is behind me and I can appreciate they are trying to be kind. It'd be nice if people were universal in their reactions to each other, then we wouldn't have these sorts of conundrums.