Touring bike advice?/ Bike Fridays?

[DeniseGoldberg]

I have been talking with a salesperson at Bike Friday about getting either a petite New World Tourist or a petite Pocket Crusoe. He's pushing the Pocket Crusoe, but given that it's more expensive I'm hesitant. The main difference as far as I can understand seems to be that the Crusoe is marketed as being more "rugged". Is that perception right, and does this translate to better off-road handling? Or...? Would there really be that great a difference in performance between the two?

Looking at the New World Tourist, he sent me a design for a NWT Capreo 27, which is towards the high end of the price spectrum. If I went to a less expensive model (say, the NWT 24 or 27) do you think I'd still be getting the kind of bike I need?

Leila -
I just took a look at the Bike Friday web site to check the two bikes you are looking at. It's hard for me to tell the differences between the NWT and the Crusoe, but given that the Crusoe is a newer design, I assume that there were some improvements built into that bike. You could ask them if there is a customer you could talk to who has experience with both bikes, but that might be a long shot. I'm sure there are happy customers of both bikes. My own instinct would be to go with the Crusoe.

On the Capreo vs. not Capreo... it appears that the Capreo cog set (Shimano) has a wider range of gears (9 - 26) than a typical cog set (11 - 24). This would allow the bike to be built with smaller chain rings. Where this makes a difference is in packing the bike. When I pack my Pocket Rocket (which folds in a similar fashion to the NWT or Crusoe) into its suitcase, I have to remove the right side pedal with chain rings attached. I think that with the Capreo cog set (which didn't exist when I bought my bike) that the bike could be packed without removing the chain rings.

Hope this helps some...
--- Denise

[Ered_Lithui]

Thanks, Denise!

I just got off the phone with Kurt at BF and quizzed him about these and other issues.

What he said: the Pocket Crusoe is basically just lighter than the NWT (the web site says 19.7 lbs versus the NWT's 24.7 lbs, now that I look at it). Also, Crusoe is available in Petite, whereas NWT is not. They'd be willing to size a NWT down for me (lol...if I get it, I'll probably call it the NEWT), but it would still be "about 1 1/2 to 2 pounds heavier" than the corresponding Crusoe. (Just looking at the standard weights, though, I wonder if it might be more like 5 pounds heavier). He said that I'm probably not likely to notice much of a difference when it's fully loaded, but that the Crusoe would have a lighter, sportier feel when it's just me and the bike. Then again, the NWT can take more weight on the frame itself (since I'm leaning towards the trailer option, this is probably not a big issue). The two models are designed for the same terrain and can be fitted with all of the same components.

Capreo: rear hub system that duplicates the gearing of a larger bike -- so essentially higher gearing. I thought that BF gearing already compensated for the smaller wheel size?... So apparently this takes it further.... Both you and Emily mentioned wanting *lower* gearing, though, which makes sense to me (having been warned more than once about the dangers to my knees of overusing high gears, which I'm wont to do). I asked about packing the bike--with the Capreo, you still have to remove the pedal (I'm guessing that means removing the chain rings too?). So it seems like the non-Capreo option would be just as good, if not better.

Hmmm...so looking at some of the options if I go Friday:

New World Tourist 27
*23.2 lbs
*$1,270
*not available in Petite

New World Tourist Capreo 27
*22.0 lbs
*$1,710
*Not available in Petite

Petite Tour Lite Crusoe
*17.8 lbs
*$1,750

Hehe. The weight-bearing capacity of a Petite might be a double-edged sword in terms of whom I'd be able to lend it to or allow to test-ride it. (Sorry, Dad!)

I guess the question is whether to invest in the lighter-weight model with its pros and cons.

Do you have any special theft considerations with regards to BF's? Does anything about them make them easier to steal or more likely to be a target? Does the unique design make them too conspicuous to risk stealing, or is it an attraction? Bike theft is rampant at my college (even securely-locked bikes get taken), so it's a prosaic but important consideration for me. I could keep it in my dorm room, I guess.

MomOnBike: Thanks for the input on recumbents! They do look like a fun way to ride. As a person with a history of lower-back (disc) pain, I'm curious as to the kind of support a recumbent seat provides (or does it vary a lot by brand?). Does your weight tend to be pretty evenly spread from lower to upper back?

Thanks so much for all of your help! You guys are wonderful.

[DeniseGoldberg]

Capreo: rear hub system that duplicates the gearing of a larger bike -- so essentially higher gearing. I thought that BF gearing already compensated for the smaller wheel size?... So apparently this takes it further....

Do you have any special theft considerations with regards to BF's?

The gear ration comes from a combination of the chain rings, the hub, and the wheel size. So to get the same gearing of a big-wheeled bike on a little-wheeled Bike Friday, you will find that the chain rings are bigger than those on a big-wheeled bike. And for packing - the chain rings are attached to the crank, so you just pull the crank (and pedal...) from the right side of the bike when you pack it. If you're interested in gear inch calculations, there's an online tool at http://www.panix.com/~jbarrm/cycal/cycal.30f.html.

Theft considerations? No matter what bike I take, I always lock it when I'm not with it. But, I do compromise on the type of lock. I carry a cable lock with a built in combination lock - can't get those U-locks around trees! I'd hate to have a bike stolen while on tour, but I know that it could happen. I guess if it does that I'll just deal with it then... I don't let my bike dictate what I do though. If I want to do something, I lock the bike up in what feels like a reasonable place and head off to do whatever. For example, when I took my first solo tour I was in Glacier National Park and I wanted to spend a day hiking. I left my bike locked to a tree at my campsite - and it was still locked to the tree when I returned. On my cross-country trip, I wanted to wander around (sans bike) in Niagara Falls, Ontario. I locked the bike to a pole in a busy section of town, left the trailer with the bike, and just hoped for the best. I found it patiently waiting for me when I returned...

You will let us know which bike you end up with, right?

--- Denise

[emily_in_nc]

Hello again Leila~

The reason I chose the petite Crusoe over the NWT was indeed weight. The lighter you are, the more important having a light bike to lug up every hill (or mountain) is. I paid more for that advantage.

Also, with the new Samsonite suitcases, I do not have to take off my chainring or pedal to pack the bike into a suitcase! I have read that the new suitcase has slightly more volume but is still an airline-approved size (i.e., no extra luggage/bike fee).

I did not go with the Capreo cogset because I wanted lower gearing. I was able to go with a nearly standard chainring combination (Ultegra 53-42-30, which is actually a standard crankset for tandems). With the smaller wheels, that makes for lower gearing than on a road bike, but I have not had any problems with it at all. I rarely use the granny here in central NC except on the occasional really steep climb, and I can't remember running out of gears on the high end either, since if the descent is steep and long enough, I don't mind coasting. I used Sheldon Brown's gear-inch calculator to figure out my gearing and have been very happy with it (I have 11-32 teeth in the back, so I believe my low gear is about a 17", and I needed it in upstate NY!)

As for theft, I don't leave my bike anywhere I can't keep it in plain sight (or have hubby guard it), so thankfully that has not been an issue. Folding bikes are easier to hide inside your car or trunk than a standard bike since you can just fold 'em up and put them in, so in that way, a folder like a Friday is actually a plus!

Keep us posted about what you decide!

Emily

[MomOnBike]

As for the seat on a recumbent, that can vary. Mine (EZ Sport) is really cush. The back is mesh, and, hmm, my back doesn't even notice it. (I have a tender back, too.) FWIW, I've talked to Physical Therapists who have recommended 'bents for bad backs.

As you guessed, the range and variety of seats is wide and variable. I haven't been on one, but there are one-piece molded seats - but those seem to be favored by the go-fast crowd. The bicycle tourers tend to go for foam seat, mesh back. Most have a lumbar curve to the back, so are pretty ergo. As with all things, you really have to find out if your body likes that bike/seat. Keep in mind that many (most?) seats let you adjust the seat/back angle to your preference - and that that preference can change. They aren't hard to adjust. (Not available on hard shell seats.)

Test one and see what you think.

As for theft - all bets are off on a college campus. I like to think that my large and distinctive bike makes for a good theft deterrent all by itself. I lock it (generally) when going into a store, or similar, and I sure would if leaving it at a campsight while out exploring, but it gets noticed. Thieves don't like that much.

One last thing (Ha!), as of last night, the Bike Friday site has a used Bike Saturday up for sale. Something to consider...

One last, last thing (really), perhaps your Dad would "store" a recumbent for you while you are at college and you use a bike there that won't break your heart if it "accidently" leaves with someone else.

[Surlygirl]

There is a great article in this months Adventure Cyclist Called "How to buy a Touring Bike by John Schubert as well as a section called "Touring Bikes for your Consideration which is quite extensive. It includes regular Touring bikes, recumbents and folding bikes.
www.adventurecycling.org.

[fasteryet]

This is slightly off topic, but for you Bike Friday and recumbent riders, how easy is it for you to transport your bikes? Obviously with the BFs, you can fold them, but if you don't, would the AirGlide fit on a hitch mounted bike carrier? And what about the bents? Also, what about packing and shipping? The BF's have their suitcase, and is it really easy? Denise says she has to take off the pedal on one side, but what about the handlebars? Off, or just twist? And for the bents, can you pack them in a box or suitcase? I'm thinking about another bike to travel with this year, and am trying to decide between paying for an expensive trip with bike provided, packing up and shipping my CDale road bike, or buying something new that is easy to take along. All opinions appreciated...

[DeniseGoldberg]

Is this the first of many trips? Or is this a trip to see if you like traveling with your bike? I'm assuming that since you're asking the question that traveling with a bike is in your not too distant future. I did start in this world of traveling by bike with a diamond-framed bike, but I got tired of paying the excess baggage charges, and I knew that I was going to continue traveling with my bike. I still have that "big wheeled" touring bike that I ride on tours closer to home - but my first Bike Friday purchase came when I wanted to be able to take a bike with me on non-biking trips. I went on a hiking trip in the Canadian Rockies and found that there were days that I wanted to bike in addition to hike.

On the disassembly front - the handlebars have to come off to pack the bike. (Depending on how you are packing, turning the bars might work...) And that's not just on a Bike Friday but a "big wheel" bike too. When I pack my Air Glide I do not need to remove the crank and chain rings - I only need to do that with my Pocket Rocket. (Yes, you're right - I do have 2 Bike Fridays!) The pedals need to come off, but that's easy.

As for putting the bike on a rack, I'd be most comfortable putting the Air Glide on a roof rack. I suppose you could mount the bike on a rack by the beam, but that gives you a bike that isn't level. I would bet that people do transport them like that; I either ride my bike to where I am heading, or I throw it in the trunk of my car if it needs a lift to the start of the ride. Of course I do the same with my diamond-framed bike...

--- Denise

[emily_in_nc]

This is slightly off topic, but for you Bike Friday and recumbent riders, how easy is it for you to transport your bikes? Obviously with the BFs, you can fold them, but if you don't, would the AirGlide fit on a hitch mounted bike carrier? And what about the bents? Also, what about packing and shipping? The BF's have their suitcase, and is it really easy? Denise says she has to take off the pedal on one side, but what about the handlebars.

What Denise didn't mention is that the Bike Friday handlebars have a quick release just like the seatpost, so are super easy to "take off" (they remain attached to the bikes by the cables. The handlebars are also split down the middle for packability, but this does not affect riding at all. Packing the suitcase does take a good 15 minutes since many parts have to be wrapped to protect them during transport, so this is not something I would do unless I am going on a trip. I don't pack the suitcase just to transport the bike to a ride.

However, folding the bike to put in the trunk of a car or back of an SUV takes only a minute or two - it's very easy and makes the bike very compact. I would do that before I would rack it outside my vehicle for security sake. I should mention that I have a "Pocket" model, which are quick folders. The "Air" models with a beam take a minute or two longer to fold, from what I've read, to remove the beam.

I am lucky in that I am able to carry any of my bike(s) inside my Honda Element without even folding so have not had to deal with racks (roof or trunk). I wouldn't put the Friday on a trunk rack since it doesn't have a top tube, so, as Denise says, would not ride horizontal and might not do so well. If I had to rack it outside my vehicle, I'd use a roof rack.

Hope this helps!

Emily