Dangers of Vegetarianism?

[lizbids]

Thanks so much for the input!! For the record, genetics can certainly take over no matter what, unfortunately. For instance, someone wrote they have less grey hair, but I'm 27 and apparently take after my grandfather, who also went grey pretty fast. I just hope that the breast cancer my uncle has and my mom had won't come finding me...oh and the colon cancer of said grandfather.

I'm suspicious of multi-vitamins...are there any that dissolve in a drink, like water, as opposed to swallowing the pill? I've heard studies that proved they didn't dissolve, hence the term, "All you have now is expensive urine."

What about protein shakes with vitamins? I'm trying to cut back on milk products (never digested well anyway)...I bought some vanilla soy milk but have yet to try it. I'll let you all know

I also want to warn veggies about over-consumption of the wrong foods. I hate it when a vegan or a vegetarian would point out the dangers of my burger while they scarfed down fries and were about 40 lb.s overweight. I suppose nowadays is IS easier, with pastas having multigrain and using whole wheat and stuff.

So these books you all recommend...they have break-downs of what foods to include in your diet in order to receive the right nutrients? I'm so excited to read!!

[divingbiker]

I hate it when a vegan or a vegetarian would point out the dangers of my burger while they scarfed down fries and were about 40 lb.s overweight.

Well, here's where genetics enters into it also. I'm 40 pounds overweight, even though I'm a vegan who eats french fries very rarely. I'm proof that it's possible to be fat even if you eat right and exercise, so go figure.

For me, veganism is an ethical choice. I'm sure that one can eat a healthy diet that includes animal products, but I choose not to for the sake of the animals.

[kaian]

I was a vegetarian for several years and went back to eating chicken about a year ago. I was having soft tissue problems - I had tendinitis in 4 different parts of my body within a 3 year period all from "overuse" even though I really was not over-training. My chiropractor suggested I try eating some meat to see if it made a difference. I don't like red meat and I am allergic to fish, so I just eat chicken maybe 2-3 times a week at most and do whey protein shakes as well. I have not had any problems since I started eating meat. I have also noticed that my performance on the bike has improved, which I didn't expect.

So...while I think vegetarianism is the ideal (I don't really enjoy eating meat), I don't think it was working for me. A lot of veg products you can buy at the store are processed and that's something to think about too. Too much processed food is not good either. So...if you can prepare healthy meals and your body responds well, I say go for it. I think it's different for everyone. It certainly can't hurt to try. I tried for 6 years and ultimately I think there was something I wasn't getting that I needed.

It's hard though. I do think about the animals and some days it's hard for me to eat the chicken. I have to eat pre-cooked (can't see it in its raw form) chicken. But, I am feeling better and it has kept me out of physical therapy!

[deena]

I have been a vegetarian for more than ten years. No meat, chicken, or fish. I do eat eggs and dairy, but as I have become a better eater, have reduced that too.

Concentrate on whole grains, fruits, and veggies. The key is variety. I don't look at the nutritional value of each meal, but of the day as a whole. If I am eating lunch out with co-workers I may wind up with a cheese sandwich - just make up the difference at dinner. I also took to grazing (on HEALTHY foods) rather than eating big meals.

There's a great book - Vegetarian Sports Nutrition by D. Enette Larson-Meyer, who is a cyclist. She covers foods as well as meeting the hydration needs. Great resource.

[lizbids]

Divingbiker--
Didnt' mean to sound rude about the 40lb-comment remark (I had a friend in college who a vegan but actually smoked, drank, wore leather and ate a lot of junk). I just hate hypocrites, and he was just so smug about his non-meat-eating.

and as for genetics, yeah totally hear you on that. In my family, people are just generally heavy no matter what...though a few of them have tremendous appetites. Then you meet ultra-thin people who are big eaters--go figure!

[divingbiker]

Divingbiker--
Didnt' mean to sound rude about the 40lb-comment remark (I had a friend in college who a vegan but actually smoked, drank, wore leather and ate a lot of junk). I just hate hypocrites, and he was just so smug about his non-meat-eating.

No offense taken. I know there are a lot of holier-than-thou vegans out there. My approach is to bring in cakes, cookies, and delicious dishes to potlucks, and show people that vegan food can be tasty. What they do with that info is their business.

[solveig]

Good to hear from all the other vegetarians and vegans out there. I've been vegan for 5 years, vegetarian for 5 before that, and generally really like how it makes me feel.

I've read some pro-vegan books that basically tell you not to worry about protein consumption, calcium intake, and B12 intake. I tried that strategy for quite a few years, and then - to make a long story short - I realized that I do have to pay attention to those things. Maybe it wasn't such a big deal when I wasn't riding and placing those extra demands on my body, but now that I am I need to make sure I'm eating my 50+ grams of protein every day, getting calcium from food & supplements, and taking my B12 supplement.

I've also learned that it's convenient for those wanting to lose weight to use veganism as way to avoid calorie-dense food. Which is totally valid, as long as you're being rational rather than obsessive about it. Veganism can be a really meaningful expression of ethical relationship among living beings, when it's done mindfully and humbly. When it's done in a knee-jerk way, it can be just another "food rule" that doesn't bring clarity at all.

Did that make any sense?

[mimitabby]

Thanks so much for the input!! For the record, genetics can certainly take over no matter what, unfortunately. For instance, someone wrote they have less grey hair, but I'm 27 and apparently take after my grandfather, who also went grey pretty fast. I just hope that the breast cancer my uncle has and my mom had won't come finding me...oh and the colon cancer of said grandfather.

I'm suspicious of multi-vitamins...are there any that dissolve in a drink, like water, as opposed to swallowing the pill? I've heard studies that proved they didn't dissolve, hence the term, "All you have now is expensive urine."

What about protein shakes with vitamins? I'm trying to cut back on milk products (never digested well anyway)...I bought some vanilla soy milk but have yet to try it. I'll let you all know

I also want to warn veggies about over-consumption of the wrong foods. I hate it when a vegan or a vegetarian would point out the dangers of my burger while they scarfed down fries and were about 40 lb.s overweight. I suppose nowadays is IS easier, with pastas having multigrain and using whole wheat and stuff.

So these books you all recommend...they have break-downs of what foods to include in your diet in order to receive the right nutrients? I'm so excited to read!!

yes, You're right about the grey hair. People don't go grey because they eat meat. There are millions of people who never eat meat and their hair is grey.
However, if your urine is colored from your vitamins, that means they DID dissolve. what it also means is that your body didn't absorb what you see obviously...

[Zen]

When I was a student of anatomy our textbook had photos of cadavers to show various muscles. That pretty much put me off meat. I find that the vanilla soy milk has too high a sugar content. You may want to do a search with the terms complete and incomplete proteins and complimentary proteins.
and check out http://www.mypyramid.gov/mypyramid/index.aspx

[smilingcat]

Cookbooks for reference:

Any of Moosewood cookbooks. Great recipe.
Laurel's Kitchen Have nutrional information and how to mix grains, beans corn and other vegetable protein to make it worthwhile. After six or so month of veggie diet, your nose will become sensitive to the smell of meat in a grocery store. And you'll be able to pinpoint where the meat section is just from the smell.

I like veggie burger from Trader Joe. You can't tell its veggie burger... yum...

smilingcat

[beetle]

Another omnivore here. I don't have the time or inclination to become vego BUT think those that do it well should have a very healthy body and be giving themselves a great chance against many diseases.

Just wanted to add that if you are exercising a lot make sure you are getting enough protein as plant sources are not as efficiently processed as animal sources (which could include milk, eggs and cheese if you choose to eat them).

Also be careful falling back on multivitamins to replace the things not in your diet. This link shows an interview discussing recent findings about some antioxidant supplements (inc beta-carotene, Vit A and Vit E) and links to increased risk of mortality. http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2007/1861068.htm
. This guy is talking about Danish research but it supports recent American findings. I've not read this particular interview transcript but read a summary of the American findings just the other day. It seems that until now little research had been done into potential negative effects of taking supplements and really its just been assumed (with the help of multivit producers no doubt) that they are beneficial. My personal view - there is no substitute for real food - if you can't get all the vits and minerals you need from real food (with certain exceptions) then perhaps your diet needs to be rethought vegetarian or otherwise.

[lizbids]

Ok, so basically B12 is really only something you can obtain from animals, and all of us have B12 in our systems to begin with, correct? So are supplements like Centrum the only way to go to ensure you get the vitamin? Other foods have B12 added (cereals, soy milk, etc)?

[Thorn]

Several people here replied with sub-lingual B-12. I'm fuzzy here, but, when I did the research eons back, it seemed to me that the B-12 in swallow-whole tablet form is not absorbed easily and is almost certainly just peed back out.

The sub-lingual losenge form, on the other hand, is like a trickle-charge. It goes in slowly and your body will absorb more of it.

Of course, the diet side effect of the losenge form is that you won't be eating while taking your B-12 and the cherry flavor (the kind I used) hangs around for a while afterwards, so munchies are out of the question.

[lizbids]

I'm intrigued...can someone tell me more about the B12 lozenge?