divingbiker, I'm not insuinuating that you haven't trained your dogs at all. YOU said you resigned yourself to their BAD behaviour, not me. Dogs can be trained but still have an area or two that they need work in. That doesn't make the owner a bad person. Sometimes we just don't know what to do to correct the problem. Maybe working with one at a time would help. For years I didn't know what to do about my dog's fear of thunder. But after watching the show I mentioned I've come up with another thing to try and it worked. I've seen him take dogs, sometimes 2 or 3, which were nearly impossible to take for a walk because they would lunge at every passing person\bike\skateboard\dog or whatever and get them to walk with each other - plus he'd throw in a couple of his dogs. So, I think there is always a way to help our dogs.

I meant my post to be in no way an attack on you or your dogs. Just to say we have an obligation to not give up when it comes to our pets and to offer a possible solution.