Creepiness? Or just friendly?

[Kimmyt]

I ride on the trail alot by myself, since my schedule never seems to match up with the group I used to ride with. Therefore, I always run into 'creepy guys'.

Usually, though, I can tell that they're not really creepy, that it's just my overactive imagination putting me in faux dangerous situations.

Sometimes I may really have a cause for worry. The homeless-looking people that stumble along the trail scare me, sometimes, because I don't know what they may do. So do the groups of kids that hang around and play basketball by the trail. Last year I heard of a cyclist who got mugged by a group of high school kids.

Sometimes people are just weird, and I know I'm being defensive by getting creeped out or angry at them, but I am very sensitive to personal space.

The other day I was on the trail and I came up on a guy riding a pleasure bike. He was not going very fast, so I passed him. He cocked his head as I approached, though, and I think he must have heard me about to pass him, and suddenly he sped up. That sucker was going fast! I had to really gun it to get around him, thinking that he wouldn't be able to hang long at that speed, but when I got in front of him he sucked onto my back tire.

It got me angry. 1) Because I had no idea who he was, and how well he knew how to handle a bike while he was inches from my tire and 2) I didn't know if he was doing it for some other reason. I slowed down, and he tried to talk to me, but I didn't say a word. He was in my space. I slowed down alot and let him get away from me, but when I continued my ride I ended up coming up on him again. The same thing happened this time! Finally I stopped riding all together, got off my bike, and watched him teeter off into the distance.

The thing is, I wouldn't have passed him if I thought he would speed up. I usually only pass people who i know I will drop quickly, because I hate to play leapfrog. I am perfectly fine with slowing down so that someone has more personal space, because I know how I appreciate mine.

But it was like this guy had no clue. Plus, I think his sudden bursts of speed were really just meant to impress me or something, although i could have cared less and instead ended up wanting to punch him in the face.

Anyway, the point of the rambling is, yes I have been in your situation before, and yes it upsets me. i don't like anyone on my tail unless I know them or they have asked to be there. My boyfriend doesn't feel at all the same, we've talked about it before, but I won't give in (neither will he). He doesn't care if a stranger drafts, but I hate the idea of anyone I don't know that close to me.

It could very well be gender-related, but it's probably more of a personality thing.

[Grog]

Quite creepy. Lots of cyclists on the road here, and once in a while I end up drafting off someone, or the other way around. Don't mind the chat. However I've had one creepy event (just a gut feeling) and told the guy I didn't want anyone drafting off me.

I suggest doing the same thing, telling the guy to either drop back or pass you, you're not wanting anyone on your wheel.

There's always snot rockets, also.

I like to imagine that a guy with bad intentions wouldn't find a likely victim in a woman who performs good snot rockets... !!!

[KnottedYet]

I've run into creepy white-bearded bike guy on the Burke Gilman Trail, so he obviously uses the whole of Sammamish and Burke.

His MO seems to be hanging on a woman's wheel until she stops her bike. Then he tries to chat or just hangs around until she starts riding again. (I could NOT get rid of him until I caught up with my group and made them all stop so he went by.)

He is creepy.

Next time I see him I'll yell at him not to draft and to go around.

[lauraelmore1033]

gotta learn how ta make me some of them snot rockets. Priceless suggestion!

[Grog]

Maybe next time someone has a "chat" with the guy, it would be worth mentioning that many women have reported having trouble with him and that if he doesn't stop being annoying he's going to be reported to the authorities?

Can't help fantasize imagining the "conversation":
"Nice weather hey?
- Do you know that there's a lot of women in town who are really tired of having you suck their wheel?
- Uh..?
- If you don't leave me alone right now I'll have to report your behaviour."
[Creepy Bearded Man rides away.]

Obviously I'd make sure I strike conversation in a populated area.

And I would be tempted to drop an email to the trail authorities, if I was in Seattle...

[teigyr]

you know, I think this is the guy. We've (my DH and I) have been talking about it and it sounds like the same person. He did what he did to me but when he passed my husband, he passed quickly and said nothing. I had to pretty much stop (as knottedyet did) to make him Go Away.

I think all the advice you gave is wonderful. I should've been more assertive instead of passive-aggressive (ie just willing him to go away instead of saying it). My DH did ride ahead but that's ok. He's new to his bike and cycling and I would like him to learn his limitations and when you want to sprint, heck, it's fun! I was sore and tired and was simply not riding well. We did decide after this to each carry a cell phone instead of just one of us for those "just in case" situations.

I wonder if this guy's just lonely? I know when I pass people I try to say things like "hi" or compliment them on their bike or something. I still don't like it when people stay too close. I kind of started riding with the assumption that drafting is an invasion that you don't do without permission. I am also very aware about my personal space and like to keep a pretty good buffer between me and other people.

I will say this guy, while not being the fastest rider, seemed to vary his speed as it suited him. I think I had the gears to outride him but I didn't have the conditioning or the strength at the time.

While I like to think we're all equal in gender, I think men sometimes have less to worry about than we do. Even if it's just random scamming on the womenfolk, it's not appreciated and it's somewhat invasive. If the person wants to talk to us, why not just pass by, say hi, and let it go?

We did decide, also, that if/when we see this guy again, my DH will ride right behind me. Let the games begin! (DH saw the situation as when the cats play power games...hereby known as Kitty Games.)

[teigyr]

Got to practice the snot rockets! Normally I try to discreetly and demurely do it into my glove. I think, however, he is well deserving!

[Tuckervill]

I think he was enjoying the "view", which puts him high on the creep-o-meter.

My natural reaction would be to look back after I first noticed him and say, "How ya doin?", in a measured not-too-friendly tone, and then judge my gut based on his response. Then I'd stop where there were people around, and not engage him anymore, or take the first exit off the trail and head towards civilization or a crowded place. Of course, with hubby there (he's never in front of me, but if he was) I'd do my famous ear splitting whistle and hubby would be right by my side.

The bicycle cop guy would p*** me off, because 'hey, duckhead, I can HEAR my bottom bracket clicking, too! What do you think, that it doesn't drive me nuts with every pedal stroke, especially since I can't seem to figure out what it is?! What do you think I am, an imbecile?"

Karen

[VeloVT]

I agree with everyone that you should trust your gut about creepy situations. I also probably tend to be a bit over-reactive about perceiving creepiness in strange men though...

I do have a question about this "riding behind a stranger" issue though --

I was riding the other day with a girl from one of my classes. She was struggling along on a mountain bike with underinflated tires... working really hard. After accidentally losing her a few times, I suggested she ride ahead and I would follow (since I certainly wouldn't want to always feel like I needed to catch up). This went well and we continued for most of our loop this way, until the last section which is a gradual, but very long hill. She was really struggling and told me to go ahead and she would catch up. I didn't really feel good about doing this, but she insisted. So I went ahead, then at a certain point slowed down quite a bit, to look behind me (I didn't want to get too far ahead). As a was coasting uphill looking behind me, some guy in full kit from somewhere, full skinsuit, booties, matching windbreaker, etc, fancy bike, rear mounted bottle cages, passes me. This piques my competitive devil a little bit (dude, don't think you're that much faster than I am just because I'm a girl on a pink bike coasting uphill) and I catch him and stay with him for about a mile. We were going fast -- a pace I could sustain but one which had me working. It was fun... I was not right on his wheel, I would say half/three quarters of a bike length behind. At that point I pulled into a driveway to wait for my friend (we were riding on a somewhat busy road that is popular with cyclists for its rolling hills, wide shoulders and gorgeous views). I didn't announce my presence or try to talk to him, it's possible that he didn't even know I was there, since I never saw him look back (though I could hear him shift so presumably he could hear me shift as well).

At the time I was unsure if it was "rude" to follow a stranger like this -- would my behaviour here fall into the same creepy/annoying category as this white-bearded guy???

[quint41]

I didn't read all the posts, but I did see one that I have to agree with .... ladies, if you feel uncomfortable, SAY SOMETHING. As girls, we are raised to not make waves, to not speak up, to be nice all the time. I'm not saying we have to been nasty, but we DO need to learn to speak up. If a guy did not like the way someone was behaving on a ride, you'd bet he'd say something. He wouldn't necessarily be rude about it, but he'd speak up!

I don't like people drafting me. I'm not a strong enough and confident enough rider yet. There are only a couple of people who I will allow to draft me, but they are well aware of my ability, and they are very experienced riders. Others who try to draft me, I simply turn and tell them that drafting makes me nervous, would they please move away, thank you. I've never gotten bad feedback for doing that.

(I used to watch my girls play softball. Never fail, in the outfield, two girls would run for the flyball and at the last minute, they would both stop short and the ball would hit the ground. One dad, who is a psychologist, called it the "you first" method of playing outfield ... "You first. No, really! You were there first, I insist!" Put two boys in the outfield, and one might end up with a concussion, but the ball would definitely be in someone's glove!)

[missymaya]

I agree with the rest of the ladies that this was a definately a creepmaster. I ride the trail everyday to get to and from work and in the early mornings it's not bad but in the afternoons you get some homeless people fishing and some suspicious charaters and a few months ago a woman was attacked and raped there. I make a note of what they look like and where they're at and ride as far on the opposite side as possible. Usually these people are harmless but I don't know if any of them will try to hurt me.
I haven't been in this particular situation but if it were me, I would definately say something and say it forcefully and loud (not yelling loud but loud enough) so that he should get the point to back off. If he still doesn't get the point pull out the cell and make a call and let the creep know that your notifying authorities about him. If DH is with you, use that to your advantage. I'm not saying women are helpless, but there is power in numbers and DH would probably scare the creep off.
Hope this creep backs off and safe riding.

[Geonz]

The "when is drafting okay?" question is a real "it depends" one. When somebody passes you and you catch up and draft a little from a not-too-close distance... many people (myself included) don't mind, though it *is* crossing into personal space.
I think teigyr's story and Kimmyt's stories are good ones to sort of compare and contrast. Kimmyt's guy was tacky... but a fairly common "this guy doesn't know when to rein in his ego" thing. I suffer from the same thing but I've got my mirror, so when you're gaining on me from behind I'm going to speed up *then.* I'm too proud and introverted to draft off ya; if you pass me I may let you get a bit ahead and then put on the speed just so you *know* I'm strong (and try to refrain from actually beating on my breast) ... but Ack! Pass you??? Not likely.
Teigyr's story, though, crosses the "normal" threshold. A: he's different for men and women. B: he "drafts" at slow speeds. Let's face it, they folks who are speeding up for ego reasons generally *want* to blow by me so when I slow down, they will speed up and be proud. This guy is not drafting - I don't want to *know* what he's doing.
I'm not saying eveyrbody should be normal, and he might not have a lot of control over his normalness. However, he needs to know our culture's social rules and learn to abide by them in public places. Could be the authorities have already spoken to him and wish more people would speak up... maybe he's got a caseworker. He may be lonlely, but he's certainly not going ot make friends with his current behavior patterns so it might be doing him a favor to convince him they need to change...

[Grog]

At the time I was unsure if it was "rude" to follow a stranger like this -- would my behaviour here fall into the same creepy/annoying category as this white-bearded guy???

It doesn't make you creepy (Geonz's answer is great) but it put you at a potential risk of hurting yourself, especially if 1) the guy doesn't know you're there or 2) the guy doesn't know how to draft someone else (and don't be fooled by the fancy clothes and bike, it doesn't mean much).

If there's a hill and he stands up (or sits back down), his bike will sort of "jerk back" (actually it's only slowing down while you keep pretty much the same pace) and you can bump into his wheel. Or if for some reason he brakes suddenly or even coasts, at the moment when you were not 100% attentive, you can also touch his wheel (or worse). He'll be fine, but you'll go down.

I don't think it's especially rude to draft off another roadie, but I find it really important to let that person know you're there. I'd really be mad if I someone drafting off me crashed in traffic because I didn't know they were there.

[smilingcat]

Polite thing to do is always ask if you want to draft someone.

If an idiot decide to draft off of me without asking, its a big "CLUE" that he doesn't know how to ride. I usually give the draftee a dirty look and if he still doesn't get it, I ride like Wilma until he goes away. Usually slowing down alot. I don't resort to snot rocket. Last thing is to piss off the guy behind you.

Being drafted by someone you don't know is very unsafe. Tell him to go away.
And kimmy's run in definitly gets my creepo alarm going in my head. If you are strong enough, drop him. And if you are not, stop and make a phone call. And even if you don't connect, pretend you are talking to your hubby or BF. Works like a charm.

shawn

[Eden]

I can see it in a couple of ways. Sometimes paths are so crowded that it can be nearly impossible to pass safely so you end up hanging out behind someone waiting. Really you should try to back off so that you aren't breathing right down someones neck in this situation, but everyone has their own personal space and some need more than others to feel comfortable.

Sometimes I end up behind other people because I'm supposed to be out doing a zone 1 recovery ride and I know that if I pass this person/group that I'll end up going much faster than I want. I try to hang out at a respectable distance and often someone in that group will drop back and chat. At 5 feet and female I'm not exactly a picture of threatening either though.....

Now when you are clipping along on a quiet trail or road and you pass someone who then latches on to your rear wheel and sits there saying nothing.... rude - or sometimes just clueless. Just try to be sure when you pass someone you do it decisively. If you pass and slow down the person you passed will often unconsciously speed up a little and next thing they know they are drafting you, whether they know how or not. Of course there are always those guys whose egos won't allow little ole 5 foot me to show them up and try to involve me in a silent "race". Those are the worst ones. Get off my tail dude and if you have to pass like I said do it decisively don't pass me then slow down - that's just annoying and now suddenly I'm drafting you and I don't want to be. (of course I kind of think its fun when some guy blows by me, but can't maintain that speed for more than a little bit so past I go again in a mile or so. I usually don't see those ones again since they burned it all up to pass me the first time)