Thinking about buying a Specialized Ruby Comp

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Aggie_Ama, I don't think my Allez fits me as well as it could. I feel I am too stretched out. But I am having slight knee pain in the front which means my seat needs to be moved back a bit. That would stretch me out even more.

I think it means you need to raise the seat UP more, not move it back.

You can't have 700c wheels on a really small frame because then your toes hit the front wheel too often when you're turning or cranking up steep hills...the dreaded "toe clip" syndrome. 26" or 650B wheels will not make you slower- they'll just be better proportioned for your frame's size and your body size. Better fit will result in more efficient riding. I suspect that any women who is 5'3" or less might be better off on a bike with wheels smaller than 700's.

[Aggie_Ama]

li10up- I will pm you the two that I think have service that is good. I bought a bike from one, but not the one that carries Specialized.

I think it means you need to raise the seat UP more, not move it back.

You can't have 700c wheels on a really small frame because then your toes hit the front wheel too often when you're turning or cranking up steep hills...the dreaded "toe clip" syndrome. 26" or 650B wheels will not make you slower- they'll just be better proportioned for your frame's size and your body size. Better fit will result in more efficient riding. I suspect that any women who is 5'3" or less might be better off on a bike with wheels smaller than 700's.

I have 700 wheels on my new 47 cm bike and after almost 400 miles have not managed toe overlap once. I do not race and therefore am not cornering super tight, but I do climb a lot of pesky steep hills.

Specialized and now Cannondale have worked very hard to eliminate this problem. The owner of the shop I bought my bike at was impressed when I asked him about the toe overlap and we couldn't create it in the shop. The other problem is if you can't go custom you may have to take the 700 wheels. I didn't want 700 wheels, but I wanted carbon and custom was not in the budget.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Amanda, that's amazing that you don't have toe clipping on your bike! I wonder why that is. I am 5'5" and ride a 54cm frame with 700 wheels and I do have toe clip happen, but only when I'm doing like tight figure 8's in a parking lot or doing an emergency turn/stop or something. I guess all bikes geometrys also come into play. But there is a certain overall truth that if you take two 700 wheels and bring them closer and closer together (as in putting them on a smaller and smaller frame with a shorter and shorter top tube), there will simply be a point where toe clip becomes a real problem.
Of course, your bike and my bike have different geometry, so compare them as 47cm and 54cm isn't really accurate, as our seat tubes probably have different angles and thus different lengths, etc. etc.

[Aggie_Ama]

Amanda, that's amazing that you don't have toe clipping on your bike! I wonder why that is.

Honestly, I am quite shocked myself. I had come to accept that I couldn't afford custom and manufacturers weren't going to offer the frame I would want and 650's on a stock bike. I figured I would just have to manage the toe overlap. I am not sure if it is my riding style, shoes, pedals or the bike. The only review I found of my bike before I bought it mentioned the toe overlap. Maybe I just haven't done it yet.

I think Caligurl said she doesn't have the problem on her Ruby either? I believe there was a debate about the elimination of the toe overlap making it not handle as well. Since I don't race, I don't notice this. My Synapse does everything I ask of her without complaining.

Of course one other downside of a tiny frame- I have to use the smaller water bottles!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Honestly, I am quite shocked myself. I had come to accept that I couldn't afford custom and manufacturers weren't going to offer the frame I would want and 650's on a stock bike. I figured I would just have to manage the toe overlap. I am not sure if it is my riding style, shoes, pedals or the bike.

Hey, I'm sure you must have way smaller feet/shoes than I have (size 9 1/2 "ski feet") so that must help you avoid toe clip too!

Li10up wrote:
If I raise the seat up then I will be rocking too much from side to side. From everything I've read if the front of your knees hurt then your saddle is too far forward.

Lit10,
That's not what I have read, but oh well, much has been written! It IS true that if you start to rock when you raise your saddle higher, then it's probably as high as it should go.
One detail to consider- I believe the front knee ache is "most commonly" the result of leg staying too bent on the downstroke. One thing I found is that I used to catch myself pedaling with my toes pointing downward a lot- and that caused my heels to be higher, resulting in slight bent leg syndrome. I had to work hard to keep correcting this in myself and keeping my feet flatter (more horizontal) while riding- and i think that has paid off finally in a more efficient pedal stroke that is better for my legs and knees as well. It's something you might want to check to see if you are doing it too.

[Wahine]

Lit10,
That's not what I have read, but oh well, much has been written! It IS true that if you start to rock when you raise your saddle higher, then it's probably as high as it should go.
One detail to consider- I believe the front knee ache is "most commonly" the result of leg staying too bent on the downstroke. One thing I found is that I used to catch myself pedaling with my toes pointing downward a lot- and that caused my heels to be higher, resulting in slight bent leg syndrome. I had to work hard to keep correcting this in myself and keeping my feet flatter (more horizontal) while riding- and i think that has paid off finally in a more efficient pedal stroke that is better for my legs and knees as well. It's something you might want to check to see if you are doing it too.

Knee pain can be the result of both of the scenarios brought up in this thread. If the knee is too bent during the down stroke, you will get pain, if the knee is too far forward over the toes in the 3 o'clock position, you will also get pain. There are also other causes of knee pain such as cleat position and good old muscle imbalances.

Because seat posts are angled backward, when you raise them, you also move them back. So raising the seat will also increase the distance between the pelvis and the bottom bracket, fore and aft. Usually what I recommend is finding the correct seat height first, then correcting for fore and aft position of the saddle based on where the patella lines up above the toes in the 3 o'clock position.

Seat height should take into account your habitual ankle postion during your pedal stroke. IMO, it is not good enough to measure with the heel on the pedal at the bottom of the pedal stroke, as many shops do. This is a static measurement and there is nothing static about pedaling.

I ride a 2000 Allez pro. I bought it when most companies did not have WSD frames. It is also a little too big for me. However, it is a beautiful frame and I can't afford a new bike at the moment. I have tweaked out this bike really well by changing saddle, seat post, stem and going to fully adjustable aero bars. Now, apart from not having proper top tube clearance, I am a happy camper. The moral of the storey is that bike fit is important, and if you are buying new get the best fit you can. But, if it comes down to it, you can also do a lot with a frame that isn't perfect that will make it fit you well.

[Kathi]

The Specialized bikes have very steep seat tube angles (76 degrees) on the smaller bikes. On their 54 cm frame the seat tube angle is 74 degrees.

Cannondale has the 75 degree seat tube angle on the Synapse but they don't make it any smaller than 47 and its interesting to note that on their 40 and 44 cm frames they still use 650c wheels.

Caligurl, I'm getting the feeling that a lot of the small custom builders will not put 700c wheels on a small frame. Some won't bother making a 650c wheel frame.

I didn't push the issue but I suspect that Serotta would not have built my 48 cm custom frame for 700c wheels.

I wonder about a 74 degree seat tube angle on a bigger frame because my 48cm frame has a 74.5 degree seat tube angle. It just seems like a bigger frame should have a slacker seat tube angle.

I think the steeper seat tube angles are how Specialized is getting around the toe overlap issue. I wonder if the rider's center of mass is then compromised?

[li10up]

I think it means you need to raise the seat UP more, not move it back.

If I raise the seat up then I will be rocking too much from side to side. From everything I've read if the front of your knees hurt then your saddle is too far forward.

[caligurl]

You can't have 700c wheels on a really small frame because then your toes hit the front wheel too often when you're turning or cranking up steep hills...the dreaded "toe clip" syndrome.

WRONG! my 48 ruby pro has 700c wheels and i don't have toe overlap.... (you were correct aggie_anna! )

as far as handling.... i've had no problems with handling my ruby! she's a dream to ride!!!!!!

i can still carry 2 water bottles on my frame! i have t to use side entry cages... but that's ok... they are curvy and pretty and look great on ruby!!!!! (and they are the large red polar bottles!)

i did have to get a shorter stem and a different saddle *sigh*..... the jett was just a HORRIBLE seat for me! so purdy... but sooooooooooooooo not for my tukis!

specialized has done a LOT of work on women's bikes... that's one company that doesn't just paint it pink and call it womens!!!!!

as for custom.... i'm so glad i didn't let that twit make me a bike like i orginally planned... she insisted i needed 650's and i was adament i didn't want them.... so i ended up with ruby..... i'm SO glad now i didn't go custom!!!! (or at least that i didn't go custom with the twit! lol!)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Well I don't know what Specialized is doing but it must be something to do with tube angles. If I was to take my Rambouillet 54cm and make it a 48 instead with 700 wheels, there would be major toeclip going on (unless maybe I got tiny feet to match it). Since you had to shorten the stem, maybe that indicates they are not shortening the top tube all that much, which would then explain the non clipping. But then they'd have to be making the bike shorter height-wise to accomodate the shorter rider of 5'2". Maybe they are moving the head tube lower down to increase standover height and allow for shorter riders? Fascinating to speculate, wish I was more knowledgable to figure it out through bike geometry charts. I bet DebW could.

[Aggie_Ama]

i can still carry 2 water bottles on my frame! i have t to use side entry cages... but that's ok... they are curvy and pretty and look great on ruby!!!!! (and they are the large red polar bottles!)

I think Cannondale put the bottle holes in stupid places, I use side entry but can't get a big polar bottle in the lower cage. Well I can, but it is awkward to remove. I can still carry two smaller polar bottles though, so it isn't the worst thing.

We have some major thread drift going on here. I don't even think the starter of this topic needs a small frame!

[Bluetree]

i can still carry 2 water bottles on my frame! i have t to use side entry cages... but that's ok... they are curvy and pretty and look great on ruby!!!!! (and they are the large red polar bottles!)

Caligurl... why do you need the side entry cages? I have a 48cm and I use two top-loading ones. Can't remember the brand, but I'll have to take a close look.

+1 on the no-toe-overlap!

[xeney]

Lisa, that was kind of the whole point of the Ruby's design. It has a special fork that takes care of the toe overlap problem while allowing a shorter cockpit:

One striking and welcome addition to the family is the women's-specific, semi-monocoque carbon fiber Ruby line. Specialized touts the Ruby as the highest-level frameset currently available with women's-specific geometry, including a shorter top tube, head tube extension, and a shallower head tube angle coupled with a carbon fork with greater trail. This produces the short cockpit dimension required for women's typically shorter torsos but without the toe clip overlap issues.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?.../specialized06

I wish I could afford one! But I am so in love with the red color on the pro that I could not settle for one of the more affordable versions. Call me shallow!

[emily_in_nc]

Lisa, that was kind of the whole point of the Ruby's design. It has a special fork that takes care of the toe overlap problem while allowing a shorter cockpit....

I thought that having a fork with greater trail made for sluggish handling? I could be wrong, but this is what I remember.

Emily, whose little road bike has 650c wheels AND toe overlap, but it fits!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Aghhh!!.....brain hurting!!!!!!!!