Muslim Women All Body Swimsuits

[margo49]

Turkey is another interesting case in point.During the modernisation regime of Kamil Attaturk women were prevented from wearing the veil. Now some are wanting to veil and others not. And in Turkey there are also Jews and Armenians who are mostly Orthodox .
Also, in Reading Lolita in Teheran, the author mentions how her grandmother stayed fearfully inside the house (veiled) during the reign of the Shah who in the name of modernisation was banning it. While she, 2 generations later was in fear of leaving the house without a veil in the time of Khomeini and the Ayatolla's and Modesty Squads.
The wife of a workmate here actually wears shorts in her own house but goes out in traditional Muslim garb plus hijab.

[doc]

I'm sure I'll take flak for this response, but here it goes...

I have lived and worked with many people with different religious/cultural dress. I found it mildly interesting and sometimes beautiful (like a fancy sari sp? which can be truly gorgeous). Often the person's religion/culture dictated various headwear (turban for a man etc). Never bothered me, that's for sure.

But, I believe a mandated or even recommended covering which obliterates the face, allowing only eyes or in the case of a burqa only shielded eyes to be seen is an erasure of identity. I think it is unhealthy in so many ways. It makes women completely interchangeable. It changes women from individuals to merely a concept or group. It eliminates nonverbal communication which is a substantial component to human interaction. Overall, it has massive ramifications, all negative I believe. Plus, the concept that a woman must cover her face from men who cannot control themselves gives license to men to behave unacceptably (wasn't their fault, after all) and causes victim blame.

OK. Now I'll duck and wait.

[East Hill]

I don't think you would get much argument from me over that. Women have become interchangeable parts to many men, and the all encompassing garment does help foster and promote that idea.

East Hill

[Grog]

OK. Now I'll duck and wait.

Don't. You have put it very well.

Indeed there is a big difference between covering one's hair and eventually body and covering one's face. Fully agreed...

[Mr. Bloom]

I agree...it is well put.

Wow...it's interesting the contrasts here:

On one hand, women are degraded for too much covering...but then I've observed the more traditional American view (originating - I think - from the feminist movement) that woman were 'objectified' from the opposite extreme of too little (or no) covering.

I'm not advocating either extreme as being right or wrong...it's simply interesting that the opposite extremes can bring one to the same conclusion...

But, to me, I suppose it boils down to consent and choice...does the person have the benefit of choice, within cultural customs and laws, to be unique without fear or persecution.

Everything is permissible, not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible, not everything is constructive.

This is much more interesting to ponder than I would have ever imagined

[margo49]

.It makes women completely interchangeable.
.

I think it is worse than making us interchangeable.

If the primary male objective is sensation a woman is basically unnecessary.
Men only need a particular woman if they are interested in a relationship. If they want give and take and feeling and a journey together it *does* matter who she is.
If not, any one or any thing can get them the "desired sensations"

[Now I'd better duck and run , along with the sheep and suckling calves]

[sgtiger]

I lived in Corvallis, Oregon for time which has a pretty big Islamic community. There were many women who wore burqas. Some because their families were very traditional and strict, and made them wear one. However, I met many women who chose to wear one. Like a Korean/American woman who converted to Islam after she got married. And a young women who grew up in a family that didn't believe in them. It mystified her family,including male members, why she would want to wear one. She told me it was very liberating for her to don it because she wasn't being objectified.