Selle SMP Strike

[Mags...]

I followed with interest the 'very happy tushie' thread, last year, I have tried a few saddles over the last 12 months. I've had the Selle Italia Lady Gelflow, after measuring my sitbones heaps of times I tried the Specialized Jett. I read lots of good things and bought a Terry Butterfly Tri Gel. All of these saddles were either good up front, or good up the back, but none of them good for both and I wasn't happy to settle with any of them.

So, now I've really expanded my saddle collection and bought the Selle SMP Strike Stratos.
http://www.sellesmp.com/en/stratos.htm
It's not technically a womens saddle, though I got a couple of personal recommendations from women who were using it - at AU$305 (roughly US$240) I did think about it very carefully. My husband just shook his head when I said I'd bought it, but he's not too worried because if this one is no good, he'll happily ride it himself.

So... I've ridden it twice now - both only 32km rides, so not really long enough to make any long term decisions. I'll be doing a 100km ride on Saturday, this will definitely be a deciding ride for me. I've had a couple of tweaks for positioning, it seems to be sitting pretty for me for this weekend.

It seems perfect while riding in the drops or on the tri-bars, I can't even feel the nose of the saddle in the front. It will be the back when riding up on the hoods where I think I could possibly feel that the padding might be a bit lacking. When I'm sitting up my weight is nicely back on the widest part of the rear area, my sit bones are hitting the padded ridges just right.

What do you ladies think - if you feel a bit of discomfort on the back which you think is because of not enough padding, do you give it a bit of time - does a saddle need a bit of wearing in or your butt bones need a bit of toughening up? Or do you think that if it's not working straight up, it's a no-goer? How much time would you give a saddle before making a decision on it?

Does anyone have experience with this saddle?

[slinkedog]

Hi Mags! I have to say that the one thing I don't like about the SMP Strike TRK is how much padding there is in the back. My girly parts are incredibly happy, but it takes a few rides after not being on the saddle to get my tushie used to the amount of padding. In general, I like a little less padding in the back. I wish I could afford one of the more expensive SMP's, but for now, I'll stick with my cheapie.

[koala]

I do not have experience with this particular saddle, but I can answer some of your questions. No, your saddle does not need breaking in. Your butt does experience some conditioning & toughening, but it is the large muscles that get tougher, not the bones, and most certainly not the sit bones. If you are okay up front, and you are not chafing to the point of rawness in the thighs, then you have solved the major issues that lead people to ditch a saddle & seek another. The one remaining issue of minimal padding is the easiest to solve -- try a short with a thicker chamois. I ride a hard saddle made with a carbon shell & not much in the way of padding. I wear well-padded shorts. I think for long rides this is the better solution. Too much padding on a saddle just squishes down & gives you too much contact area that can rub & irritate. Less is more. So try putting your padding in your shorts.

I am very interested in hearing how you fared on your 100 km ride as I am contemplating this same saddle. I've been riding the Arione for a couple of years now, which is fine in the back but bothers me in the front on a long ride. It seems to be a function of aging that I am more sensitive in front than when I was younger. It seems to be a lubrication issue, and the chamois creams only seem to be able to provide limited relief in that specific area. I haven't jumped out there to buy one yet because I haven't been able to decide between the Glider (same width, a little more padded), the Stratos & the Evolution (even less padding than the Stratos). Yours is right in the middle. Please write back with your impressions when you have the time.

[Mags...]

Your butt does experience some conditioning & toughening, but it is the large muscles that get tougher, not the bones, and most certainly not the sit bones.

I was beginning to think this was probably the case. My problems with discomfort have always been one of either 2 scenarios: being aware of low level of pain in the sit bones - result - lots of squirming and shifting around to try to alleviate it, or: feeling pain and discomfort of the pubic bone area.- result very tender afterwards and redness of the skin. It's generally not both areas at the same time, so different saddles have been successful in eliminating one or the other of these problems, never both.

Well, I ended up going for an 80km ride on Sunday, at a higher intensity level as I went with a different group than originally planned. As a consequence, I spent more time in the drops or up the back of the group on the aero bars, than sitting up straight. The verdict on this saddle for the front pressure - it's perfect, all the way through between the legs, perfect also. No rubbing or pressure. I was unaware of any discomfort. On the back, well it wasn't perfectly pain-free, I was starting to feel those bones at about the 60km point, but wasn't too bad, I've certainly felt worse.

My thinking on it at this stage is that if I was on a ride where I was to spend a fair bit of the time sitting up, rather than on the drops, then it may be that my sit bones would be feeling like they'd had a bit of a pounding. I think it may have something to do with weight distrubution.

I sit at a desk all day at work, and my sit bones sometimes feel sore just from having sat on them for so many hours... so it seems reasonable that if you sit on any surface without shifting positions, you'll feel sore after a while. Your suggestion of more padded shorts could be a good solution, but I wore my best ones (Sugoi RS Flex) anyway.

I'm thinking that if I'm able to change my positions frequently throughout a longer ride - some times on the drops, some times on the aero bars, some times sitting up on the hoods, then I'm unlikely to be putting too much pressure on any one area for extended periods. So, my next plan is to see if making that sort of conscious choices as to position might make it that I don't have any discomfort at all.

My current goal is I'll be doing the ride leg for a team in a half Ironman triathlon in early May (90km), where the ride position will be drops & aero bars for pretty much the entire time, so my priority for this saddle is to feel comfy in those positions. I'm feeling very positive that this saddle will work for me.

[Mags...]

I haven't jumped out there to buy one yet because I haven't been able to decide between the Glider (same width, a little more padded), the Stratos & the Evolution (even less padding than the Stratos). Yours is right in the middle. Please write back with your impressions when you have the time.

I was, and still am, in the same dilemma with regards to the choice of model - I made a deal with the bike shop that if the Stratos wasn't going to work for me, that I could swap it for the Glider - I'm glad to have that option to fall back on if I need it.

[koala]

The Sugoi is a nice short, but I hardly consider it a thick, well-padded chamois. It's one of those thin, stretchy-type chamois that the manufacturers figure is what women riders want. It's a little better than SheBeest because there seems to be a stiff layer sandwiched in under the soft top. But it seems too thin overall to provide good protection. I think the assumption is that women ride saddles with gel seats or extra-cushy padding, so they won't want padding in the shorts. And that's probably true for a lot of riders who don't want what they percieve to be a diaper-feel. I'm willing to sacrifice a chamois that disappears & is comfortable when I'm walking around for a chamois that protects me when I'm riding.

I rode SheBeest & Castelli when I used the Terry Tri Butterfly, and later on the Terry Butterfly. Once I started doing serious distance & went to firmer seating (Terry Zero, Selle Italia Flite, SLR, numerous Selle San Marco's, you name it, I've tried it), the thinly padded shorts became unacceptable. My recommendations would be Assos, the Louis Garneau shorts that come with the ErgoZone, and Etxe Ondo, which is soft up front & extra-padded under the sit bones. Pearl Izumi makes a thick chamois, but it is stiff & has rough edges. The Descente Strata might work for you, too.

My other best suggestion has to do with changing position. In addition to what you already plan to do, it helps to stand up every so often to pedal. A seated position change doesn't relieve pressure as much as standing to let the muscles straighten & lengthen a bit before you sit back down. I tend to do hill-rides, and I'm a very active rider anyway so I end up shifting my position a lot. That's one thing I really like about my long, flat saddle, I can move around on the seat a lot. Does the Selle SMP just have one sweet spot you can sit on? Or does it give you some room to move around?

I just checked on the Selle SMP site & have to correct my earlier posting. It turns out the 3 models are not all the same width, they range from 129 (Evolution) to 131 (Stratos) to 136 (Glider). That would probably eliminate the Glider for me as too wide. My current saddle is 132 & I actually wish it were a little narrower.

[Mags...]

koala, I'm agreeing with all you say. You are probably right about the manufacturers developing their shorts based on popular saddle choices by the majority of women. In fact I own a couple of pairs of Shebeest shorts as well and when I'm riding only 30km I usually wear them. I've now got good reason to look around for some new shorts - I was thinking along these lines anyway, and it happens that I was looking at the Etxe Ondo and the Descente's. I'm anti-PI these days because i've bought some of their gear and each time it's been a disappointment for one reason or another and I reckon they are just overpriced. The brands you've mentioned, would it be fair to say they are all a smaller fit? I wear size S both in Shebeest and Sugoi. I'd have to buy online as my LBS is a no-go for clothing, and I dislike having to do returns via post. Would you have any advice about sizing?

As well as frequently changing my sitting position, I'll add in the occasional stand and pedal for relief - one of my favorite riding buddies does this also. It seems a sensible thing to do. We don't do a lot of hills, 'cos we live in a very flat region, almost all of my riding is done in the saddle, even on hills, so standing-up will have to be the go.

Does the Selle SMP just have one sweet spot you can sit on? Or does it give you some room to move around?

... I don't think there's only one sweet spot - this would have become apparent on my recent 80km ride, and I don't recall focussing on that issue, so I'd have to say it didn't seem too critical on how and where I positioned myself. I think that one of the main differences for me, is how my fleshy parts fit comfortably with the very wide channel down the centre. As well as needing sufficient padding up the back, I'd say it's a good idea to look at the amount of padding around the ridges that travel from the nose to the back. With your fleshy bits sitting comfy in the channel, you'd want to make sure there was sufficient padding on those ridges because a fair bit of your weight is sitting on them lower pelvic bones between your legs.

You're right about the Glider being a little wider. The Evolution is just that bit leaner than the Stratos both in width and padding. Hubby rides it and I really can't see that I'd be happy on it myself, even with a thicker chamois. But I've talked with one woman who's riding it and she said it's perfect. So... if you found a shop that would agree to a swap after a trial, you could try the Stratos and if you're not happy, swap to the Evolution.

Thanks so much for your comments...

[Mags...]

the Louis Garneau shorts that come with the ErgoZone

have you seen these shorts

http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=18035

the LG Airstream - check the chamois, click to get the large view of it. TE has these and also the Alveos which have the Ergozone chamois...

http://www.teamestrogen.com/products.asp?pID=13215

bit of a difference in price, I wonder if one is 2006 model and the other 2007... or whether the more expensive one delivers a higher quality...

both of them look the go.... now I'm in a dilemma.

[koala]

Oh, my, yes! (warming up to topic)...

I feel the same way about PI, btw. Their price-points seem inexpensive compared to other brands, but for what they are when you get them in hand they are over-priced.

Descente sizing is identical to PI, they even use the same sizing chart. If you go Descente, the Strata chamois is probably the only acceptable choice. There is a Phantom, but it is stiff & the edges aren't finished nicely (ie, rough). The brand also likes tighter elastic around the waist & the leg openings, so may not be as comfortable for long rides in the drops or in the aero position. Trying to give you pros & cons here. How about bibs to eliminate the waist band?

LG is a little strange in their sizing, but TE has good size charts to follow. I would guess you are a small from what you wear in the other lines, but check the size charts.

The 2 chamois you picked are very similar in thickness, so both would provide good protection. The Airstream chamois has 2 long raised ridges, extra padded, with the idea that your sit-bones park slightly above the rest of the chamois. There are also large vents to give you some air flow. I haven't tried this one, but the gals who have loved it, said they felt like they were riding on air. This assumes that your sit-bones land on the ridges & not in the valley. The Alveo's, and the Power Short, both use the Ergo Zone. I like both these shorts very much. The chamois is flat, smaller vents, but seems to work. The fabrics are nice, too. The Power Short is power lycra, offers good compression so my legs don't feel as tired, and the Alveo fabric has little dimples & bumpies which feel nice against your skin, also has good compression. The riders who use these love them, too. Caveat on the AirStream, believe it's been discontinued for '07, so whatever is there is last of. Alveo's & Power Short will still be available.

Etxe Ondo is a good choice, too. I am hoping for some shorts or bibs myself from this line. The chamois is soft, but has stiffness for protection with some sort of layer sandwiched inside. Unlike the others I've commented on above, it won't need a break-in period to soften up. The sizing is similar to Assos. I take a small, I am 5'2", 26" waist, 35" hips. I am also a small in all the other lines I've talked about here.

I know you want to minimize returns, but I hope you can somehow try Assos, or at least get your hands on a men's short at your LBS so you can see & feel the chamois. They really are all by themselves out there. It is very thick, but soft. And the pad has resiliency, so it doesn't squish down & stay squished, it will spring back. The front of the short does not have an elastic waistband (it is only in the back to keep the short up). The front is like a bathing suit, comfy for bending forward for long stretches. I give it my very highest recommendation.

[slinkedog]

I've never tried any of the shorts you guys are discussing, but just FYI, I have a pair of SheBeest Elite Distance shorts (they are being replaced with a new short this year). They have a grey chamois, like the blue one in the Triple S and knickers, but quite a bit thicker. I like them a lot.

I don't like PI, either. I haven't been happy with the shorts I got from them. Don't like the chamois and the edges are not finished well.

[VeloVT]

Anyone tried Giordana shorts? The newish one, Forma I think, looks comfortable and flattering, from the pictures anyway... (wish the local bike shops had better women's selections...).

[koala]

I'm so delighted to have actually found someone riding these saddles, so now it's my turn for some questions.

Is the padding on the Evolution just on top where the sit-bones rest? Does the padding on the Stratos go further out to the sides/edges of the saddle? Do you get any give in the padding when you push down on either of these saddles with your finger? Does the shell have any flex in it? If you were to take it in your hands by the sides, does it bend at all it you push down on it?

These are all things I can't do long-distance. My LBS does not carry this brand, and the on-line dealers are incommunicado with a no-return policy. It's encouraging that your husband is happy on the Evolution. What was he riding before?

My hubby rides the Fizik Aliante. He is very happy on it, but it does have a sweet spot for sitting. You kind of fall into it because it has a natural, anatomical dip. This is normally fine, but it gets to him on really long rides because he can't shift around to relieve the pressure the way I can on my super-long Arione. I thought the SMP's might have a similar anatomical dip where you naturally end up sitting.

You're most welcome. Good luck on your quest for the perfect shorts. Hope you find a pair that makes your butt happy. I'll be curious to know what you settle with. I would vote for one of each, a gal can never have too many pairs of shorts. And besides, how can you say no to the Etxe Ondo's when they look so sharp?

[Mags...]

Lengthy essay follows:
Hope my assessment here is accurate, here goes:

Is the padding on the Evolution just on top where the sit-bones rest?

Pretty much. It runs down the entire length along the outside ridges, but doesn't continue on the inside of the ridges. It is quite thin on the nose. If there is any padding continuing around the outside edges of the sides of the saddle, then I can't feel it.

Does the padding on the Stratos go further out to the sides/edges of the saddle?

Yes, it does, it continues on the inner edges of the ridges and also on the outer edges of the sides of the saddle but a bit thinner than on top.

Do you get any give in the padding when you push down on either of these saddles with your finger?

When you push on the Evolution, it doesn't indent very much at all. It's not like there's none, but the Stratos indents quite a bit more. Not as much as say a Terry Butterfly - but there seems to be a noticeably thicker padding on the Stratos. The Stratos indents more on all areas of the saddle ie the back, the ridges, the inside ridges, the outside edges and the nose, all to varying amounts.

Does the shell have any flex in it? If you were to take it in your hands by the sides, does it bend at all it you push down on it?

Both models have some degree of flex, I would say the Evolution slightly more. If you press on the centre of the saddle, the Evolution would flex downwards more so. Not to the extent of the Specialized Jett, it seems to my experience that saddle has more flex than any I've seen. On the Stratos it's not much flex when pushing on the top, but if you grasp the sides and pull outwards, both saddles have some movement.

Hubby was previously riding a fizik saddle, I can't remember which one, it came standard on his Giant TCR Comp when he had that.

does have a sweet spot for sitting. You kind of fall into it because it has a natural, anatomical dip.

This is hard to say, there is naturally comfy position where you kind of settle yourself into the channel - but I've comfortably moved fore and aft dependant on whether I'm in the drops or sitting up.

I've had no experience with the Arione, but it seems to be a popular choice amongst males and it seems to be the one that bicycle fit experts seem to recommend. I don't know about women, it seems to be that most of the women I know go for saddles in the mode of the Selle Italia Lady Gel Flow, quite wide (150mm or thereabouts) with lots of padding and/or gel and weighing in at approx. 300gr. I have a couple of these myself...

Assos....I give it my very highest recommendation.

oh how annoying... I'm now in a dilemma as to what's more important. My desire for the ultimate bike short -v- the ethical stand I took when I emailed Assos that I would not buy any of their gorgeous gear until they stopped using seriously underweight models in their advertising/catalogues. This situation continues unfortunately. While I ponder my thoughts on this, I've found a great price on the the Assos H FI Lady half shorts at www.ribblecycles.co.uk for roughly US$145 (AUS$183) incl. international shipping, which is very competitive with the Louis Garneau etc. on TE, in fact better than when you add on TE's US$35 international freight charge, which is total overkill IMO for one pair of shorts... (Ribbles is US$16.50 for the same service). I can't find any info on what type of chamois is in the Etxe Ondo shorts, so won't take the risk on them at this point.

Hope that's given you a clearer idea of the Strike saddles...

[koala]

Thank you very much for your detailed & thoughtful responses to my questions. I will re-read & make comparisons with my current saddle. This is ever so helpful.

I don't think you can go wrong with any of your shorts choices. If it's of any help, I'll just ramble on for a few minutes more on the topic before I put it away for good & leave you to your decision-making. Perhaps one of my musings might be a tie-breaker.

The fabric used in the LG Power Short is a power lycra with a matte finish. The short is constructed of numerous anatomically curved panels and it is designed to be a compressive fit. If your legs ever feel tired on long rides, the muscle compression might help alleviate this. I do find that my legs feel less tired whenever I wear shorts that compress those muscles more. Also, the inseam is quite long. So if you want more compression, more gooder, and it also offers more sun protection. The Alveo is just a little shorter in the inseam, without quite as many panels. It does not compress as much. The Power Short is definitely more compressive.

The Assos short is a simpler design, just a few panels, and the fabric is a shiny, high-stretch lycra, very similar to what might be used for bathing suits. No compression, not even from the grippers. The inseam is very short, not quite 6", and tends to creep up on me even more when I'm riding. So the downsides would be lack of leg muscle support & more sun exposure. Plus sides would be the no-elastic waist in front, and the very fine chamois. I know this chamois quite well as I also have it in my winter tights & knickers, and can ride hard with it day after day with no problem.

As for the type of riding I do, either short training rides, relatively flat & hauling hard all the way, or long rides over hilly terrain. My leg muscles can seriously tire on long rides in the hills, so I end up reaching for the LG's. I also want sun protection, and ride with a group of mostly guys, so I don't want a really short, short. My Assos short, despite the wonderful chamois, is too short for me to wear without feeling self-conscious. As comfortable as it is, I wear it indoors cycling, or under tights without a chamois.

We're still in the grips of winter up here in the northern hemisphere, so my riding right now is in the basement on a trainer. As an experiment this morning, I wore the Power Short for a hard ride & just stayed sitting in one spot for the duration, hands resting on the hoods. When I got off at the end, the sit bones were just fine. And I ride a hard, carbon saddle.

There is a review of the new Etxe Ondo short in the apparel section, btw.

The moral/ethical dilemma I leave for you to grapple with. If it really bothers you, why not send the business to TE? I try not to think of extra postage as a cost, but as compensation to TE for the really terrific service they offer. And that sits just fine with me.

[Mags...]

Perhaps one of my musings might be a tie-breaker. The Assos short is a simpler design, just a few panels, and the fabric is a shiny, high-stretch lycra, very similar to what might be used for bathing suits.

Thank you koala, I think you've helped me to make my decision - well at least I think I can eliminate the Assos, sadly 'cos they sound like they have a lot going for them. I really don't like shiny lycra, I've retired each and every piece of shiny from my cycling wardrobe, and now go for the matt finish.

Now the decision seems to be between the 3 pairs of LG's. The Powers sound like they would do the job, but being a shorty, I'm not keen on the leg length. In any event, they are out of the running 'cos TE only has them in XL, and I'll need S. So, it's Alveo with the Ergozone chamois with 8mm thickness in the rear, or the top range model the Airstream with the amazing chamois that looks like a topographical map. As you said earlier, it would really be essential for your sit-bones to line up with the ridges in the back area. I must say, I'm impressed with the style/look of the airstream... hm.. they certainly look the part, and both shorts have the muscle support fabric....

I wish I could afford both...