Question for dog-owners - cruciate ligament sugery?

[crazycanuck]

What a cute doggieeeeeee

Give him a big hug from me. Wroooof Wroooof

C

[sbctwin]

He looks like he is singing in the choir...so adorable, and yes, kissable...I hope all goes ok....

[Bad JuJu]

Woo-Woo to you too, Simon, and good luck with your surgery!

[SadieKate]

BZ, I'm so sorry to hear the news. Simon is such a good buddy, always full of happy wiggles. Give him a hug from me.

[xeney]

If you are not one hundred percent sure which way to go, since you are in the Bay Area, my advice is to set up a consult at UC Davis (you might need a referral for orthopedics) and find out which surgery they recommend. I love UC Davis. We have a regular local vet, but we have been referred to them three times, once for each of our dogs, and every time their advice has been reasonable and conservative, and we have felt entirely comfortable following their suggestions.

Our oldest dog has hip dysplasia, and our vet referred us to UCD for a hip replacement. UCD talked us out of it because they didn't think it was necessary in his case. It is now seven years later, and nobody who hadn't seen his x-rays would know he had anything wrong with him. It was $250 for the consult and all the testing.

More recently (like, yesterday) our little dog, the one in my avatar, went to UC Davis for an MRI after a very expensive neurologist told us he probably had brain cancer. She spent a thousand bucks of our money getting us to that point, but UC Davis took a more conservative approach, redid a lot of the testing, and suggested that his problems might just be side effects due to a recent change in his epilepsy meds. (He's been epileptic all his life.) We still don't know if that was the right choice, but we feel pretty good about taking their advice; they were upfront about the risks of every option and the prognosis for every outcome, and instead of rushing us into an expensive and unpleasant MRI and a spinal tap, they charged us $100 for a thorough exam and a frank opinion.

I am a big fan of UC Davis. I always feel like they tell it to you straight and do not try to sell you on procedures just to make a buck, and they always keep the best interest of the animal in mind, and they are honest even when you don't want to hear it.

Incidentally, that dog is about 40 pounds and seven years old, and he blew out his ACL (anterior cruciate ligament) on one of his rear legs when he was a year old. Our vet said that because he was a relatively small dog, he wouldn't advise putting him through either surgery, because the leg muscles would probably be able to compensate for the ligament. The leg healed quite well, and while he occasionally runs on three legs when it's wet or cold out, he doesn't even limp and I have never seen that leg slow him down. 50 pounds was our vet's cut-off, though; if he'd been heavier we'd have had the surgery. And we have always made a point of keeping him lean to keep the stress off that knee. (My husband had had ACL surgery two years before and he really didn't want to put a dog through that.)

Good luck to you and your dog.

[Wahine]

OMG, Simon is so cute!! I just want to scrunch up his lips and kiss his face and say woooo hooo right back. What a sweetie.

Good luck Simon!!

[bikerz]

Xeney - thank you very much for you advice about UCD - I will look into it because I am getting conflicting advice from the vey places - the ones that specialize in TPLO are (of course) recommending that. The place I was referred to for the suture process, which is not certified (or whatever it takes) for the TPLO of course says the suture process is better. Ugh. And I don't have time to go to vet school so I can make my own decision!

So it look slike a day off work and a trip to UCD might be in order this week - just to get a what might be a more neutral opinion.

And Simon say thanks for the good wishes! The sore leg hasn't slowed his happy wiggling down at all!

[SadieKate]

Xeney's story reminded me of our own experiences with UCD. Izaak presented with epilepsy as a 4 mos old puppy and we took him there a couple of times in the middle of the night, that being when grand mals frequently occur. One time, he obligingly had one right there in the clinic proving that mom and dad weren't over-exaggerating his symptoms. Anyway, we discussed a MRI but asked if the results would change the treatment plan. The answer was no change as we had just started phenobarbital so had had no time to get the dosage stabilized. The MRI might provide some answers as to the cause of the epilepsy (which was very new to the standard poodle breed at the time) but wouldn't change the treatment. The vet was very supportive of our decision to wait. Back then a doggy MRI would have been a couple of thousand dollars, and we didn't see how it would change Izaak's quality of life at the time.

Guess the point of this story is that the UCD vets were very reasonable in considering all the options and benefits without pushing revenue into the system.

Our regular vet (Joan Teitler) sold her practice so she could work there. One of the most intuitive vets I've ever met. Amazing the diagnoses she comes to just seeing the dog walk in the door, and the best follow-up of any doc I've ever met, for hoomans or aminals.

[aka_kim]

Z - if you can't make it out to Davis, I've had really good experiences with the Veterinary Surgical Associates/Veterinary Medical Specialists in Concord and the Berkeley Dog & Cat Hospital.

Hope Simon feels better soon. He curled up on the sofa with me that time I wasn't feeling well enough to do the Oakland Hills ride. He's such a sweetie!

[xeney]

Joan was my vet, as well, when I still lived in Davis. She is wonderful. We are very lucky to have found a vet in Sacramento whom we like just as much, but I'm glad to know she is still practicing.

[Trek420]

Z, give Simon lots of ear scratches and a big ol' bone for me.

Simon is not only one of the best behaved pits I've ever seen, he's one of the nicest dogs I've met.

[Duck on Wheels]

The latest news here about ruptured ligaments is that there's some kind of drug, injected as a gel into the joint? -- I'm vague on the details though it's only a couple weeks since I read about it, but anyways ... the received wisdom that a ruptured ligament will not regrow has been disproven. Ruptured ligaments do regrow, but there's some kind of process within the joint that disolves them as they do, so the trick is to stop that process.

[Dogmama]

The success of the surgery depends, on large part, the skill of the surgeon. I agree that UCD would be your best bet.

I had a German Shepherd who had the less expensive surgery - primarily because the expensive surgery had not been invented yet. The ortho was excellent and the leg turned out beautifully.

I would spend a few extra $$ on a good surgeon & go with whatever UCD recommends.

[bikerz]

Thanks again everyone for sharing your advice and experiences. I was out of town all last week at a conference, so am only now getting an update posted.

Simon had the "less expensive" surgery Saturday from a vet that a friend recommended. The vet who did it has done literally thousands of these procedures (interestingly, many of them were on pitbulls) and he has a very good track record, and was very freindly and informative when we spoke.

Simon also had a suspicious tumor removed from his right foreleg - the biopsy results on that lump will be in on Friday - I'm trying not to think (i.e. worry) about it until then.

Simon came home Sunday afternoon and is recovering now - it seems to be going OK, but I don't really have anything to compare it to. He can totter around pretty well on the 2.5 good legs he's got, but I'm trying to keep him settled. He has 2 different pain meds, antibiotics, and a sedative to help keep him calm.

I keep telling him he'll feel better in a few weeks, but I'm not sure that message is making much of an impact! I'd post a picture but he looks so pathetic I can't bear it! I'm definitely getting a good workout carrying him (all 48 pounds!) in and out of the house to do his thing.

He's sleeping next to me now, all bundled up in a blanket to keep warm. Poor pup!

[chickwhorips]

glad to hear he's home and recovering.

good doggie healing vibes coming your way.