DebW in the 21st century?

[Triskeliongirl]

more random thoughts on gearing. i ran some numbers through sheldon's caluclator. the lowest gear you can get with a 30 x 34 and 26" wheels is 23". I don't think that is low enough for loaded touring or pulling a trailer with kids, unless you are on flat terrain. A standard road triple has a low ring of 30, but the suginos go lower. You'll have to be careful to not be undergeared at the high end, but I would explore what is available in the sugino sets.

[DebW]

Looks like you can put a Sugino 24, 26, or 28T granny ring on any standard road triple with 74 mm bolt circle. No shift ramps to worry about on a granny.

[DebW]

I had my fitting for the custom Peter Mooney frame today. The new frame will take 700c wheels. It didn't take Peter long to realize that. My current frame is actually quite a good fit. The only things he did to it were lower the saddle (which I had recently raised) and raise the handlebars (they were already at their max but he put them 3/4" higher) so saddle and hbars were about equal. Then he put me on the adjustable frame-fitting trainer and ended up shortening my top tube a little bit. Also tried 4 different saddles and I ended up preferring a Butterfly. I didn't like the handlebar with a straight section below the levers. Tentative decisions on components are a 12-34 cassette and XTR rear derailleur, Ultegra triple 30-39-52 crankset and FD, barcon shifters, long reach caliper brakes (not canti). I can replace the 30t chainring with a 24 or 26 later if I need to. I wil undoubtedly use a narrower-range cassette when I don't need those wide gears. I'll be building myself a set of touring wheels with Ultegra hubs, 36h rear, 32h front. Tubus Vega rear rack and Ergo front. Even decided on some small lug cut-outs and picked a color (metalic silvery-blue to blend in with the S&S couplers). I'll get a detailed component list in about a week.

The places where Peter's opinion differed from mine were on the wheels (he recommended factory build wheels, but I wanted to build my own and have some of me in the bike). I asked about White Industries hubs, and he thinks they are overpriced. He doesn't like front racks and the wheelbase will get stretched a bit to include one. He prefers STI shifters and dis-recommended downtubes since they are not made any more. He doesn't like canti brakes, and I'm not a big fan of them either - they are harder to adjust and need cable hangers. I think Ultegra or Campy cranks with outboard bearings are a better choice than Sugino. If removing cranks is required to pack the bike in the S&S case, removing Sugino cranks from a square-tapered bb spindle would be a lot of work (builds strong muscles and sore hands).

Maybe just for sentimental reasons, I'll put my sewup wheels with the the 33 year old Campy hubs on the new bike long enough to transfer some of their "essense". I'd need to space the rear hub out some more and put on a 7 or 8 speed freewheel.

[Triskeliongirl]

SO, the plan is forming! You must be so excited. Listen to his advice, but you know a lot about this too so don't be afraid to trust your intuition. In the end, its your bike. That is great he thinks you can use 700c wheels, it will give you a lot more flexiblity. The only thing I think you might want to reconsider are the bar cons vs sti shifters. Sti is just so easy to shift since your hands are already on the hoods. I don't think I would like having to move to the drops everytime I wanted to make a shift. Maybe it would help if he had a bike in the shop you could test ride with sti. If you have small hands you may want the ones (ultegra level) with shims designed for smaller hands. I am also curious if he said you can fit fenders and 32c tires with the long reach side pull brakes. I think if its a sport frame its just easier to design it for long reach side pulls. When I had my frame retrofit, I noticed there wasn't a lot of room in there for cantis, so my frame builder had a special device he built to mount cantis inside a smaller than ideal space, although it its custom maybe they do have a lot of flexiblity. I had to either use cantis or move the bridge, and I worried moving the bridge would weaken the frame, and I already owned a set of cantis, so I went that route and have no regrets.

p.s. if you have any questions on the specs of the waterford my friend built he said you can send him an email (his address was in the email I sent you last night).

[Veronica]

The only thing I think you might want to reconsider are the bar cons vs sti shifters. Sti is just so easy to shift since your hands are already on the hoods. I don't think I would like having to move to the drops everytime I wanted to make a shift.

It just becomes automatic. I don't even really think about shifting. You just do it. It doesn't take that long either to move your hand.

V.

[Triskeliongirl]

I am also curious why you can't use front racks. I have no problem on my frame and it is sport not touring geometry with a longer wheelbase. All I am worried about is that you are being talked out of some of the great advice you gave me when I built my bike, such as having eyelets for a front rack and canti bosses installed. I am not saying to not trust your builder, but I am curiuos about the reasons behind some of his recomendations.

[DebW]

What I wrote in the first paragraph is what I'm getting even though it disagrees with his recommendation. I am getting a front rack. I'm hand-building my own wheels. I'm not getting STIs even though he prefers them. I'm not doing cantis partly because of his recommendation and partly because I don't like adjusting them (and I've adjusted thousands of center-pull brakes). I've heard conflicting things about them (much better than V-brakes, worse than V-brakes, best brakes for touring). If he had recommended them I would have gone for cantis, but it would have been on the basis of recommendations and not personal experience.

[emily_in_nc]

DebW,

I think you'll be fine with the things you've spec'd out. As I mentioned, I have bar-end shifters and love them. I too was used to STI before I tried bar-cons and initially resisted my salesperson at Bike Friday when he suggested them, since bar-cons were an unknown to me. But after just a couple of rides I loved them and agree with V that shifting with them becomes second nature. I especially love that they are friction in the front, unlike with STI. I can trim my front chainring so much more easily! I was always having trouble with that with STI. It's also much, much easer shifting to the big ring than with STI, which was always difficult for my left hand to do (hand strength issue) when it got tired -- that was the same for STI or Campy shifting.

I have V-brakes on my Friday and also have a front rack, and my bike is not long wheelbase (to the contrary!) nor does it have hardly any fork rake (the fork is small and straight), but it works, somehow -- I'm not as knowledgeable as you and Triskeliongirl on the technical reasons, I just know what works for me.

I also have a mix of mountain (XT in back) and road (Ultegra in front) components, which also works great.

The color you picked also sounds wonderful. Exciting!

Emily

[DeniseGoldberg]

What I wrote in the first paragraph is what I'm getting even though it disagrees with his recommendation. I am getting a front rack.

What I find really interesting is that I don't remember Peter recommending not getting a front rack when he built my bike. I wonder if his view of racks has changed, or if it's because I was configuring a bike for loaded touring as opposed to his recommendation to you of "sport" touring (whatever that is).

Congrats on the bike order - I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

--- Denise

[Triskeliongirl]

What I wrote in the first paragraph is what I'm getting even though it disagrees with his recommendation. ....

Ahh, thanks for the clarification! It sounds like you will have a wonderful bike! Yeh I do see the advantages of side pull brakes, I was torn myself. I also really see the advantage of going custom, which I think is the most important decision you made. If I had it to do over I would probably have done that too, but we all learn about this stuff as we go.