Cantilever vs centerpull brakes

[VickiK]

Hi there,

Does anyone know what the pros and cons of these 2 brake types are? I'm researching a new bike. The one I want can accomodate both types and I would like to understand if one is better for me over the other. I ride on the road, or maybe occasionally an easy trail. The bike I'm dreaming about is a roadish/touring type of steed.

Thanks for your help!
VK

[jobob]

Oooh, you looking to get a Saluki??? Excellent choice, m'dear

My husband has an Atlantis that's equipped w. cantilever brakes. He's found the cantis to be a bit more difficult to adjust than, say, sidepulls - and he expects centerpulls would be about as straightforward to adjust as sidepulls.

Also, canti brakes are prone to squeal. We've noticed that with his bike, and with other bikes equipped w. cantis - we went on a night ride last month and one of the participants had a very nice Co-Motion touring bike w. canti brakes that squealed like a stuck pig. At least he didn't need to call out when he was slowing down

My husband was able to get rid of the squeal for the most part by fiddling with the toe-in angle on the brake pads, but it's a bit of a hassle.

One advantage of the cantis is that they can accomodate wider tires than the centerpulls, but that said, the centerpulls can take pretty beefy tires - at least up to 38 mm* with fenders [*edited to add: I'm assuming you're asking about the Saluki here, since AFAIK it's the only production bike currently offered w. the canti vs centerpull option].

The cantis would open up wider than the centerpulls, which would make removing a wheel with a fully inflated tire (say, to remove the front wheel to put your bike on a roof rack) a bit easier with the cantis than w. the centerpulls, esp. if you're using a very wide tire.

I'm told that cantis generally have better braking power than centerpulls, but the centerpulls work well too.

That's all I can think of.

[edited to elaborate] I'm going with the centerpulls myself, based on my husband's experience w. the cantis, and just my own personal aesthetic preferences, but that's just me .... I intend to use my Saluki for light touring, I have no imminent plans for fully-loaded/self contained (tent/sleeping bag/cooking equipment) touring, but if I did, I would think 38 mm tires would be more than adequate. For fully loaded touring I would however consider going with the beefier wheelset (36 spoke) rather than 32 spoke wheels.

[DeniseGoldberg]

I have sidepulls on my road bike and cantis on my touring bikes. The cantis allow me to use heavier tires to support my touring load.

I haven't used centerpull brakes in years, so I can't comment on sidepull vs. centerpull. Your comment implies that you may want to use your bike for touring as well as unencumbered road riding. If that's true, then if your touring is to be self-contained, I think you should strongly consider the canti brakes.

[VickiK]

It seems like if I plan to do loaded touring or use wider heavier tires, the canti's are the choice. As it is, I am not really planning on that kind of riding, I think a 32mm tire is/will be wide enough for 95% percent of my riding.

Jobob, you guessed right, I'm looking at (lusting for) the Saluki! I considered the Atlantis, but I really wanted a speedier type of bike. The folks at Riv and others feel that a 700mm wheel and a small frame size is a combo that entails compromises in geometry, comfort, etc., and I accept that because it seems to make sense in my mind (smaller frame, smaller wheel). I have to admit there's an element in me that simply likes the iconoclastic Riv philosophy, since it's based on quality and craftsmanship. And they're such pretty bikes to boot!

"I intend to use my Saluki for light touring, I have no imminent plans for fully-loaded/self contained (tent/sleeping bag/cooking equipment) touring, but if I did, I would think 38 mm tires would be more than adequate." (what jobob wrote) Yes, that's me too. I didn't know you were getting one!!

[SadieKate]

Are you asking about calipers vs canti's? Calipers can be center- or side-pull. Canti's can be center or direct pull. If you are talking canti's, I second the recommendation if you're going to do even lightly loaded touring. They have more power and are the preference on tandems because of this. A loaded single bike can have similar stopping challenges. Squeal should not be a problem if they're properly setup. Just stick a very thin piece of card board or a folded 3x5 under the back end when you set them up. Cable adjusters can make all the difference. If the levers themselves don't have a cable adjuster, you can buy an in-line adjuster that goes on the cable.

As always, Sheldon covers it well:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/canti-trad.html

I just setup a Kelly cross bike with Avids and some old Real Designs levers and I love the combo. Hubby set up his Knobby X with Dia Compe Levers, in-line adjusters, and XTR V-brakes. His setup will stop you on a dime. The problem is your nose will be on the dime if you aren't careful.

When do we get to see pics?

[jobob]

nope, we'za talking centerpull (calipers) vs. cantis

http://www.rivbike.com/html/bikes_saluki.html



Of course, now you have me worried that I made a big mistake in going with the centerpulls .... aaaack....

- Jo "worrywart" bob

[CorsairMac]

darn ya'll - why do you have to go and post pixs of Rivendells??....trying to torture me?? *cigh*....one of these days........and I Love the look of the Saluki! Me-I'd go with centerpulls but then - I know how to work on those. At this point - I'd just take a Riv - period! Brakes are secondary!

oh and Jo hun: I hear olive oil is good for those hairballs! (aaack)

[VickiK]

Another is size. If I take my PBH measurement, I should go with a 47 size frame. Maybe a 50. But when I e-mailed my query to Rich at Riv, he advised me to go for a 52. He said he'd skip the specifics on why, but it has to do with the bottom bracket.

I am somewhat leery, but o.k. However, on the website there's 2 centerpulls left, and 0 canti's, in the 52 size. Therefore, it's either write the check, or put in a deposit for the next shipment.

Funny, huh?

[jobob]

Ummmm ... altho I am something of a Loyal Disciple of the Church of the Riv, I'm leery about their "bigger is better" philosophy.

One of the reasons why I'm getting a replacement for Pokey (*gasp*) is because he's a wee bit on the large side for they way I want to set him up now. I went strictly by PBH when I bought Pokey and got a 57 cm frame. That did not give me very much top tube clearance, but when I was using 27mm tires it was fine. But now that I have Dusty, my speedy road bike that I run happily with 25 mm tires, I wanted to set up Pokey with wider tires for more general purpose trail and touring. And unfortunately Pokey's frame is a bit too large for me to allow me to go beyond 30-32-ish mm tires and give me adequate top tube clearance. So I shoulda gone with a 55 cm frame.

My advice, check your saddle height - take your current bike and measure the distance between the center of the crank and the top of your saddle. *In general* it's supposed to be about 10 cm less than your PBH, but in my case my comfy saddle height is about 69-70 cm which is more than 10 cm less than my PBH of 81 cm - maybe I'm a mutant or something. So I'm getting a 54 cm Saluki, the Gospel According to Grant be damned (d'oh, whosaidthat????)

Also, your torso is probably shorter than a guy's which is another reason why you should lean to the smaller side rather than the larger side. Luckily with Rivs a too-long top tube can be somewhat compensated for by using a shorter stem (I use a 70 mm stem on Pokey rather than the 'standard' 100 mm stem) and/or raising the handlebars, but still.

hth, - Jo.

[snapdragen]

Pbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbt!



I am so lusting after a Saluki!!!

[jobob]

oh and Jo hun: I hear olive oil is good for those hairballs! (aaack)

Why, thankyee kindly !
<--- me having a Hair(ball) Day.

[VickiK]

You're considerably taller than me, and you're getting a 54. Hmmmm. I'll check the saddle ht vs. PBH. I haven't actually put in a deposit, but Hope to soon.

Gospel According to Grant (GAG)? Such heresy! It's so...Contrarius Saeculum!

[jobob]

ouch

[sarahfixit]

On the Brake type debate. I raced extensively on all the major types of brakes, and contrary to popular opinon(seemingly) the center pull, old style is the best performing. That is the type with the arms that extend out and a cable straddles the arms and is pulled. They are harder to adjust, but they are far more adjustible. You can make them lock the wheel with a touch or make the wheels really hard to lock just by tweaking them.
Nowadays, disc brakes have my favor. Set and forget, especially in bad conditions.