Should Men be allowed in a Women's Forum?

[Wahine]

Segregation. Thats all it is. Miss Black USA - no whites allowed but Miss USA allows blacks........ The Masters Golf Club here in Augusta GA - all male, no women allowed (its been disputed repeatedly).... TE.com; don't post if you don't have boobs (manboobs don't count).][

I'm a little uncomfortable now. I don't really have much in the way of boobs. Can I still post?

Sorry, I thought this thread needed a little comic relief.

[Bikingmomof3]

FWIW-Mr.Silver has done nothing but be a gentleman.

Now as to the topic at hand, I *had* (note-past tense ) mixed feelings, as I think others have already posted about. Basically I worried this wonderful forum would become co-ed.

After reading these very thoughtful post, especially those by Kitsune06 and HipGnosis6, I must concur with what they wrote. And I further believe, as has been previously stated, no one should ever be discriminated against.

[Geonz]

To me it falls under "if you can't enforce it, don't make the rule." Makes it not even an issue. The effort to prevent XYs from participating just isnt' worth it even *if* it were desired.
And if a guy finds the environment worth hanging around in, cool beans. And a guy posts to update us on his wife, THANK YOU.

And... those of us with full blown "earth mother comfort shelves" as they're called on the very moderated bikejournal can average out with anyone feeling they might have insufficient rolling hills

[lauraelmore1033]

I would point out, just for the sake of being that person who points out useless bits of trivia when people are arguing, that estrogen is not the exclusive property of women. Men and women have varying proportions of both estrogen and testosterone (a fact I learned recently when tests revealed that my testosterone levels were higher than they ought to be...). So it is not inappropriate for a man to be a member of Team Estrogen, since he actually does have some...

[lph]

I would point out, just for the sake of being that person who points out useless bits of trivia when people are arguing, that estrogen is not the exclusive property of women. Men and women have varying proportions of both estrogen and testosterone (a fact I learned recently when tests revealed that my testosterone levels were higher than they ought to be...). So it is not inappropriate for a man to be a member of Team Estrogen, since he actually does have some...

aaaah - so good to see someone else being a trivia geek... (Anyone else fascinated that thing about ring finger length and testosterone?)

My viewpoint has been stated more eloquently by many of you further up but anyhoo: there are many reasons that I was very happy to find this forum. I don't post a great deal, but I like having the chance. There are a few subjects that I'd prefer to discuss only with women, but they're fairly obvious sensitive subjects like saddle sores or other bodily issues and functions. There are other subjects that aren't equally sensitive but where I probably write in a different manner knowing that I'm addressing only women, things that touch onto our position in society or our social role. On this forum I know men could be reading it anyway, but the difference is in who I am "inviting to join the discussion".

That being said about the good points on having a forum for women, I have no problem with Mr. Silver being here, or with him being invited in the first place. He seems like a really sweet guy and a most excellent hubby :-), and he certainly doesn't seem the type to butt in with a male viewpoint on a sensitive issue for women.

I think TE is better for being that much more open, and it doesn't change the fact that TE is a forum for discussing cycling for women - and should stay so.

Lastly - while I respect that some of you are uncomfortable with his presence I find it a little sad that you seem to be questioning his motives for being here, or for posting x amount. I assume he just enjoys the company, like the rest of us, and from what I've seen he has been nothing but supportive and enthusiastic. "He ain't bad just cos he's a guy"

[LBTC]

(Anyone else fascinated that thing about ring finger length and testosterone?)

Trivia geek here: tell me what this thing with the ring finger length?

~T~

[Trek420]

Dang, the link doesn't work. Here's the story.


Finger length linked to female sporting potential Wed Sep 27, 8:35 PM ET


LONDON (Reuters) - The length of a girl's ring finger could be an indicator of her future sporting potential, researchers at King's College London said on Thursday.



In the largest study of its kind, hand measurements of 607 female twins aged 25-79 from the UK were compared with the women's lifetime sporting achievements.

The findings, published in the British Journal of Sports Medicine, found that women with ring fingers longer than their index fingers had performed better at running and associated running sports such as soccer and tennis.

In women the ring finger is commonly shorter or the same length as the index finger, while in men the ring finger is generally longer.

The report said detection of sporting potential by examining the ratio between the index and ring fingers "could help identify talented individuals at a pre-competitive stage."

The reasons for the findings were unclear, said one of the report's authors, Professor Tim Spector from the Twins Research Unit at King's College, who said he was originally sceptical about the link to sporting ability.

"Previous studies have suggested the change in finger length was due to changes in testosterone levels in the womb", he said.

But he said the unit had found in a separate study of twins that finger length was largely inherited, possibly explaining why sporting parents often have sporting children.

"We found that finger length was 70 percent heritable with little influence of the womb environment," he said.

"This suggests that genes are the main factor and that finger length is a marker of your genes."

He said no specific candidate genes had been identified for the link and that multiple genes were probably responsible.

Previous studies looking at the link between finger length and sporting ability have mainly focussed on men.

A study published in 2001 of 304 English professional soccer players found they had a significantly larger ring-to-index-finger ratio than a control group of 533 other men.

Other studies in men have shown the ratio of the ring finger to the index finger can be associated with varied traits such as sexuality, musical ability and vulnerability to certain diseases.

__________________

[SouthernBelle]

I can't help but throw this in after the mentions of discrimination and lawsuits. Discrimination is not per se illegal. Distasteful maybe. It isn't illegal to have men's clubs or women's clubs.

Augusta National (as it was previously mentioned) is a men's club. Not illegal.

I think a better analogy is that of a locker room.

[Pax]

Fascinating how this has evolved into a discussion about "banning" men from the forum. I have no desire to see anyone banned (not a big fan of censorship), I do have a desire to see the comfortable feel of TE remain.

While many of you see his posts as respectful and interesting, I have to say the first and only contact I had with him was a post where he referenced his need for a battle-cry (per his post...a testosterone thing). That is the post where I first questioned his desire to participate here. My initial questions were posted specifically to Mr. Silver asking him why he was choosing to post here. I was quite puzzled about why any man would choose to hang out here as a regular member, rather than doing the drive by posting like many of the men (husbands, SO's, etc) do on TE.

[Kitsune06]

Trivia geek here: tell me what this thing with the ring finger length?

~T~

....is that what it is? Oh. And here I was all hung up on the apparently antiquated definition of the word 'sporting'

My ring finger is *significantly* longer than my index... but I have yet to see any special benefit... At least as far as biking goes...

[Wahine]

FWIW-Mr.Silver has done nothing but be a gentleman.

Now as to the topic at hand, I *had* (note-past tense ) mixed feelings, as I think others have already posted about. Basically I worried this wonderful forum would become co-ed.

After reading these very thoughtful post, especially those by Kitsune06 and HipGnosis6, I must concur with what they wrote. And I further believe, as has been previously stated, no one should ever be discriminated against.

This is exactly what I love about this forum. Not only are there many very bright women here but also women of integrity who are willing to say what they stand up and are also willing to say that they have been swayed to a different opinion. I takes guts to put out a post like the one BMO3 did. I have nothing but respect for you.

[mimitabby]

This is exactly what I love about this forum. Not only are there many very bright women here but also women of integrity who are willing to say what they stand up and are also willing to say that they have been swayed to a different opinion. I takes guts to put out a post like the one BMO3 did. I have nothing but respect for you.

ME TOO! what amazing, passionate, compassionate, profound posts!

Mr Silver can't make that go away, nor can trolling men!
We have nothing to fear, my dears, TE is going to stay TE.. Only certain kinds of guys are going to post here and not get chased off. Mr Silver
is one of them. It's because he's sensitive and genuinely interested in conversation with us.
If he was womanizing, challenging or something else we didn't like, we'd fry him in his own juices. Any one of the gals who has posted on this thread could do this VERY well.

You guys are all great, I'm so glad I found this board.

[roguedog]

Hear, hear.. ditto, ditto to what Hip, BMo3 and everyone else who is pro open forum.

Don't like discrimination of any sort..

Also, I enjoy the diversity of viewpoints. Makes life more interesting as long as we are all courteous, open minded and don't take things personally. Hey! I read one of the most informative articles on shaving legs on one of the other bike forums and it was written by a man! Plus I found it amusing and fascinating...

Unfortunately in my experience, being rude, condescending, belittling and all manner of other "making others feel less than" are open to all races, genders, sexual orientations, religions etc. You get the idea.

It is the behavior that we might discourage not a person's physical make up, religious or philosophical viewpoint or whatever.

Well.. maybe people who don't like good food and wine/alcohol.. I could maybe make an exception there

[mary9761]

I'm a little uncomfortable now. I don't really have much in the way of boobs. Can I still post?

Sorry, I thought this thread needed a little comic relief.

I have PLENTY and then some and have often been asked to share, but unfortunately it don't happen that way

As far as the topic, I'm so far behind on the forums with computer problems, health problems and worry over my grandmother I don't know what happened on another thread, but I'll weigh in with as long as they are respectful and realize that this is indeed a forum discussing women's issues, I see no problem. My husband will be given my password etc and notes to possibly keep you guys up to date if I ever get in to see a surgeon and happen to need back surgery. I think Mr Silver has been great, I appreciated knowing about Silver's accident and her condition until she could get online and update us herself. It touched me deeply when I was offline recently and found when I came back that he'd inquired on my back. I hope he's feeling better too.
I don't like any form of discrimination either, as to the comment about why would a straight person go to a gay bar, I went to several with one of my friends for my birthday when I was single and had one of the best birthday's I can remember. It was great going, dancing having a blast and not being expected to "put out" for the priveledge LOL.... Seriously though, I've had many gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered friends over the years and I'd hate for them to be excluded from something just because of their gender/preference etc.
just my 2 cents and some change