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[Tuckervill]

I reserve the right to define myself by any label that furthers my aims.

Conversely, I reserve the right to refuse a label that prevents me from being fully equal or makes me less than.

In other words, I reserve the right to self-determination.

Karen

[LBTC]

I reserve the right to define myself by any label that furthers my aims.

Conversely, I reserve the right to refuse a label that prevents me from being fully equal or less than.

In other words, I reserve the right to self-determination.

Karen

Amen

[lph]

<butting in a week late as usual, what can I say, I think slow>

This exact argument has gone on more times than I can count on my (rock) climber forum. Someone offhandedly throws a comment about "newbies who climb grade x", and everybody who has never been above grade x in the course of 15 years of climbing get all huffy about being called newbies.

What it basically boils down to is that if you do something you're proud of, and mentally have given yourself some kind of "title", you don't take kindly to someone else saying you're not worthy of that title. Especially not if they at the same time imply that they are more worthy of said title.

Sure it's a valid personal opinion, but it's not surprising if people don't like it.

And for the record - I could care less about what other people think of my cycling, but I HATE it when people call 5.10 climbers newbies... Obviously my pride lies in climbing, not cycling.

[Pax]

<butting in a week late as usual, what can I say, I think slow>

This exact argument has gone on more times than I can count on my (rock) climber forum. Someone offhandedly throws a comment about "newbies who climb grade x", and everybody who has never been above grade x in the course of 15 years of climbing get all huffy about being called newbies.

What it basically boils down to is that if you do something you're proud of, and mentally have given yourself some kind of "title", you don't take kindly to someone else saying you're not worthy of that title. Especially not if they at the same time imply that they are more worthy of said title.

Sure it's a valid personal opinion, but it's not surprising if people don't like it.

And for the record - I could care less about what other people think of my cycling, but I HATE it when people call 5.10 climbers newbies... Obviously my pride lies in climbing, not cycling.

Excellent post! I imagine there are folks here who identify deeply as "cyclists"...by the same token I imagine there are folks riding in the TDF who would scoff at those who identify that way.

I like Tucks post so I think I'll stick with that:

I reserve the right to define myself by any label that furthers my aims.

Conversely, I reserve the right to refuse a label that prevents me from being fully equal or makes me less than.

In other words, I reserve the right to self-determination.

Karen

[li10up]

In one of Lance's books he stated something to the effect that "real" cyclists wouldn't even take the bike out of the garage for a ride of less than 3 hrs. Was I offended? No. Do I consider myself a cyclist? Yes - A recreational cyclist. I rode a bike from the time I was 4 until I went off to college. Did I consider myself a cyclist then? No. I was a bike rider. Do I consider the person riding on the wrong side of the street, with no helmet and wobbling all over a cyclist? No. But likely, neither does he. But I still make eye contact with him, raise a finger or say hello because I feel a kinship with anyone on a bike. There are all kinds of levels in life...what's wrong with just being a bike rider? It doesn't make you any less of a person. I'm not any less of a person because I can't ride 3 hrs with Lance...and I guess I agree with him on some level...I'm not a real cyclist...I'm a recreational cyclist. I have no delusions of being in the same league as Lance and the boys (and girls). I don't think it's denigrating at all to try to describe things on various levels. We're all cyclists in the literal sense...but that doesn't mean I can't define "cyclist" for myself in my own way.

Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~Eleanor Roosevelt

[li10up]

Queen, you beat me to the quote!! Or I didn't see it I guess.

[mimitabby]

ah, heck, I've been a cyclist since I was 3 on a red tricycle. Lance isn't more of a cyclist than me or any other kid. he might be faster, stronger, tougher, and a lot more famous than any other cyclist, but we're ALL cyclists if we like to ride bikes!